Vesta: Vesta is a large asteroid located in the asteroid belt that is thought to contain significant amounts of iron, nickel, and other minerals. Honestly. @DirkBruere - In a .6 ly diameter Dyson sphere, a 6 km dia black hole radiation absorber is simply not going to make a difference. Thin-film solar cells: These are a type of solar cell that use a thin layer of semiconductor material deposited on a substrate, resulting in lower material costs and greater flexibility. Will this type of structure be added in the future? Possible wavelengths for a hot Dyson Sphere to be detected in different black hole mass. The choice of asteroid would depend on a variety of factors, including its composition, location, and accessibility, as well as the cost and technology required to extract and transport the desired materials. He speculated that this could be done via a system of structures orbiting the star, designed to intercept and collect its energy. Note: This is ONLY to be used to report spam, advertising, and problematic (harassment, fighting, or rude) posts. In the longer term, consider the concept of uploading people's consciousnesses to some kind of data storage center, as proposed in an episode of the dystopian anthology series Black Mirror. If a structure were to be built around the black holes event horizon, it would constantly be disturbed by falling matter, and it would have to be built to survive temperatures up to 2,700 degrees Celsius. Gold: Gold is a highly conductive and corrosion-resistant metal that could be used in the construction of the Dyson spheres electrical components. Its goal is to help power a civilization whose energy demands have simply eclipsed their planet's natural potential. Jupiter, for example, has a mass of approximately 1.898 x 10^27 kilograms, while Mercury has a mass of approximately 3.285 x 10^23 kilograms. Give me some details on the kind of rocket or launch vehicle that would work. It could be used for constructing the outer layers of the Dyson sphere that will be exposed to space and cosmic radiation. This is the point at which an Earth far into the future might need to harness the full power of the sun, and the point at which we'd become a Kardashev type 2 civilization. (We need a theory of quantum gravity to really understand what happens at the singularity.) [1][2][3] The concept is a thought experiment that attempts to imagine how a spacefaring civilization would meet its energy requirements once those requirements exceed what can be generated from the home planet's resources alone. Your pencil falls faster and faster and faster, and is allegedly going close to the speed of light at the event horizon, which would represent a huge mass deficit. "An accretion disk, a corona, and relativistic jets could be potential power stations for a Type II civilization," the researchers write. This difference in speeds is precisely that referred to above by ceiling and floor observers. Therefore, 4 x 10^20 kilograms of material would not be sufficient to construct a Dyson sphere of the size and composition you specified. Further out, it will be much simpler and easier, but require more materials" How, then, could this civilization harvest the energy? 3 Quarks Daily started in 2004 with the idea of creating a curated retreat for everything intellectual on the web. The estimated cost for the RASSOR project is around $3 million. The researchers conclude by showing what SETI should look for if a type 2 civilization is hypothetically using Dyson sphere technology to collect energy from in and around a black hole. They suffer a form of annihilation, and the result is a gamma ray burst. "In this paper, we consider and discuss six types of energy sources: the CMB, the Hawking radiation, an accretion disk, Bondi accretion, a corona, and the relativistic jets from two types of black holes: a non-rotating black hole and a rotating black hole," the researchers explain. Platinum: Platinum is a valuable metal that is highly resistant to corrosion and oxidation, making it useful in a variety of industrial and scientific applications, including the construction of the Dyson spheres electrical components. Some examples of navigation equipment that could be used for the mission include star trackers, gyroscopes, and accelerometers. But is it at all feasible to use a black hole as you'd harness the energy of the sun or another star? Unexpected results of `texdef` with command defined in "book.cls". The swarm could be made of many individual collectors placed all around the different parts of a black hole in order to best collect from the accretion disk, the corona, and the relativistic jets. Dyson Spheres Around Black Holes: the Ultimate Energy Source? This would require specialized storage containers and transportation equipment, such as spacecraft or cargo ships. A: Sending all the equipment needed to mine Psyche would require a powerful and reliable launch vehicle capable of carrying a significant payload into deep space. Dyson spheres have not been detected yet, but an advanced alien civilization would surely need them. [9] Later searches also resulted in several candidates, all of which remain unconfirmed. We're talking about a civilization that would be able to harness the power of earthquakes, volcanos, hurricanes, and even the energy output of the Earth's core all at once. Next come black holes, which are far more well known. This would require specialized refining equipment, such as smelters and chemical processing equipment. A: You are correct, I apologize for the mistake in my previous response. The estimated cost for a new Kaldo furnace is around $10 million. A Dyson Sphere May Bring Humans Back From the Dead Dyson's answer is the Dyson sphere, or "a hollow ball built around the sun [that] would solve the space The original site was designed by S. Abbas Raza in 2004 but soon completely redesigned by Mikko Hyppnen and deployed by Henrik Rydberg. Atlas Copcos DM30 II is a large rotary drill rig used in surface mining operations. That would almost certainly put them between a Type II and Type III civilization. Estimates suggest that Mercurys crust may contain around 10^20 kilograms of metal, including significant amounts of iron and aluminum. The estimated cost of RASSOR is $15 million. Q: You assumed a radius of 1 AU in the calculation above. Now if a star is inserted into the sphere, since the external radiation remains unchanged the surface of the DS must increase its temperature in order to radiate away the internally-generated heat. This, they say, will likely be in the form of waste heat that we can observe with infrared spectrum technology. $6.117 x 10^33 = $85 trillion x (1 + 0.025)^n, (1 + 0.025)^n = ($6.117 x 10^33) / ($85 trillion). A: Mining all the metal on Psyche would be a massive undertaking, requiring a significant amount of equipment and resources. A Type II civilization would have to be thousands of years beyond even that high threshold, and considering the incredibly unlikelihood of life developing on a planet orbiting a stellar mass black hole, much less one surviving long enough to achieve Type I status, any civilization building a Dyson Sphere around a stellar-mass black hole would have to travel from their host star to that black hole and construct one. It has a differentiated interior, which means that it has distinct layers of different materials, making it an interesting target for scientific exploration and mining. Extracting heat energy without a heat engine. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. A: Here are a few examples of storage and transportation equipment that could potentially be used for storing and transporting metals on Psyche, along with their estimated costs: Its worth noting that the cost of storage and transportation equipment for use on Psyche would likely be much higher than the above estimates, as the equipment would need to be specially designed and built to operate in the unique environment of an asteroid. You can find him online on Twitter at @thisdotjohn, Currently playing: Deep Rock Galactic, Destiny 2, Microsoft is holding a surprise event and it might be about Bing and ChatGPT, Watch and freak out a little as Boston Dynamics puts Atlas robot to work, Quordle today - hints and answers for Tuesday, April 18 (game #449). Poof, gone. Which Exoplanets Are Likeliest to Host Alien Life? Orbits near a black hole are strange and dont follow Keplers laws, and things are more interesting with rotating BHs. So, it's easy to see how much energy this electronic infrastructure alone would take up, let alone the heat sink and cooling to make sure all of the electronics can run safely and sustainably. Let's say an individual's memories and mind fit into 2.5 terabytes of storage, which is an extremely low estimatethat means there's a server farm somewhere with 20 billion terabytes, which is 20 million petabytes, or about 20 exabytes. If we want to find extraterrestrials, we should follow their energy trail. Q: What would be a good way to send all this equipment to Psyche? Silicon, carbon, and metals are likely to be among the most commonly used materials. Transport the metals: Once the metals have been extracted, they need to be transported back to Earth or to a construction site for use in building the Dyson sphere. This could be done using spacecraft or by launching the metals from the asteroids surface using a catapult-like device. Dysons based his proposal on the fact that a planet only receives a small fraction of the energy produced by its host star. That's not how black holes work, and probably shouldn't work that way in the game. I don't think so Dirk. GRBs don't happen for nothing. See this 2001 paper by Friedwardt Winterberg. I think it's essentially correct. Why? Take a The Starship is currently in development and is designed to be a fully reusable spacecraft capable of carrying up to 100 metric tons of payload to the Moon, Mars, and other destinations in the solar system. Life finds a way particularly if it has a moon. Here is a list of some of the equipment that would likely be needed for such a project: Overall, mining all the metal on Psyche would require a significant investment of resources and technology, and it would likely be a long-term project that would require ongoing research and development. How big a black hole is needed for this story? @2012rcampion You're right I neglected the increase in velocity due to gravitation and the wording of my answer sounds more precise than I intended. The black hole is surrounded by its event horizon, a boundary that outlines the black hole from which nothing that enters the black hole can be observed from outside. I am copying my exchange with chatGPT below in its entirety to give readers an idea of the level of detail it can bring to the conversation. WebThey only spawn in small amounts, and only occur on planets orbiting neutron stars and black holes, and are only used for making Particle Container and the Plane Smelter . Would 4 x 10^20 kilograms of material be enough to construct a Dyson sphere that is 1 m thick, 1 AU from the sun and is 50% silicon, 30% carbon and 20% metals? Knock yourself out. Type II civilizations would be capable of harnessing all of the energy produced by its host star, with Type III being able to harness the entire energy of a galaxy. It has a drilling depth of up to 1,000 meters and a hole diameter of up to 5 inches. If you want to have so many of them that you block a significant amount of the sun's light, then we would need to build billions and billions more of them. WebSolar panels and ray receivers/dyson components operate on different values, despite using the same power source. Assuming an average metal content of 10% by mass, this would give us around 2.8 x 10^20 kilograms of metal available from the asteroid belt. Aluminum Aluminum is also abundant in the solar system and can be found in a variety of sources, including the crusts of the rocky planets, asteroids, and comets. George Dvorsky has advocated the use of self-replicating robots to overcome this limitation in the relatively near term. Io: Io is one of the moons of Jupiter and is known to have a high concentration of sulfur and other volatiles on its surface. A: Reducing the thickness of the Dyson sphere from 2 meters to 1 meter and placing it at 1 AU from the sun would result in a significant decrease in the required amount of material. Also see Shapiro, and this Baez article: Einstein talked about the speed of light changing in his new theory. One example of a thin-film solar cell that could be used for this application is the First Solar Series 6. This makes sense as a way to predict movement, create stability, and easily adjust or work on any individual unit in the Dyson swarm. This is just one of the many Q: Ok, now lets see a few examples of relevant communication and navigation equipment and their approximate costs. anyway the smallest stellar black hole would be at least above 3 solar masses so either depends on your mass a stable orbit without artificial acceleration is given by Force(net) equal to (Mass(1 swarm) multiply by velocity square) divided by distance. Perhaps if they introduced a wormhole, then yeah, this would be pretty neat. If you like what we do, please consider making a donation. If nothing else, it would be able to provide excellent starting points. Robotics and automation equipment: Robotics and automation equipment can also be used for communication and navigation purposes, such as controlling mining and refining equipment remotely. Some scientists believed that the star, officially known as KIC 8462852 but later dubbed Boyajians Star, had a Dyson sphere built around it, which resulted in its strange dimming. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? It uses a bucket-wheel excavation method to excavate regolith and other materials. Hsiao and his team thought first about stellar-mass black holes that form a binary system with a normal star. :D, I wish I'll have some energy fraction gettable from previous spheres as well as a reward. How much material would I need to build this Dyson sphere? On the other hand, pairs of particles, one particle and one antiparticle, separate due to the strong gravitational field whereby one gets inside the event horizon, and the other is emitted as radiation. This would be a vast shell of energy collectors placed around a star to harvest its entire light output. Proton exchange membrane (PEM) fuel cells: These are a type of fuel cell that use hydrogen and oxygen to produce electricity, with water as a byproduct. According to Tolkien, fantasy requires a deep imagination known as sub-creation. And the genre reflects a fundamental truth of being human. which is a just about $10^7$light-seconds, or 0.3 light-years. Here are some of the major sources for the metals mentioned in my previous answer: These sources are not exhaustive and there may be other sources for these metals that are not listed here. Then when you drop it into a black hole, all this is taken to extremis. Black holes feed on surrounding material from stars or other objects in its vicinity, and some of that material then shoots out in the form of two powerful jets. Probably ONLY when you research the final tech, aka, Looping. What is the etymology of the term space-time? Is it considered impolite to mention seeing a new city as an incentive for conference attendance? After double-checking my calculations, I have realized that my estimate for the required amount of material for a 1-meter thick Dyson sphere with a radius of 1 AU and a composition of 50% silicon, 30% carbon, and 20% metals was incorrect. I hope it is clear that the BH heat sinking has little effect on the energy balance of the DS. The researchers behind the new study suggest that building a Dyson sphere around a black hole would allow an alien civilization to garner energy from six sources: By not only relying on radiation as the main source of energy but a Dyson sphere around a black hole would also collect five times as much energy as one around a star, according to the study. How can I drop 15 V down to 3.7 V to drive a motor? All rights reserved. That we do not see them because managed BHs are the optimum places for high computation civilizations. It is estimated to be worth over $10,000 quadrillion, making it one of the most valuable objects in the solar system. [5], Dyson did not detail how such a system could be constructed, simply referring to it in the paper as a 'shell' or 'biosphere'. If a strong enough material is used, an alien civilization could potentially tame a black hole, feeding it matter to produce energy and harness its force. What would be the rough cost of building this Dyson sphere? 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