Tori B. June 2, 2014 at 5:58 AM. If you are reading this, you are unlikely to be neglecting your birds! Poisoned small prey is someone elses next meal. I was at the end of giving her poultry cell and B-12 compound when she dropped her head to the side. Bad bugs and parasites as well as pests like rodents and snakes are not only irritating, but they also can carry disease to your flock through contaminating or eating their feed, and some also transmit harmful diseases through direct contact. Claire, Hi Claire, yes Im at a loss too, Ive mainly had them on the organic multi grains which they love or most of it. Why it's good for chickens: Peppermint oil helps to repel flies. Keep the water pressure light so that it scares the chickens without hurting them. Toxicity to humans is generally said to be unlikely, but some people will experience allergic reactions when coming into contact with Lambda-Cyhalothrin. Can I spray it all around the pen and coop? Ooops, just noticed I was responding to a very old post. The idea is to disrupt the birds flight path and make it extremely difficult to enter and leave the run from above. At that point I invited her into the house where the wood stove was going and told her to wait on the entry rug. Regardless of the chemical used in the poultry house, follow all precautions listed on the label to prevent the possibility of health risks to the poultry or humans. Predators. The run started out as a flower garden, then the chickens (a hen and a rooster) moved in from the neighbors(!). Thanks for any help you can give me in advance. With that, and a scarecrow, we havent had any more problems with flying predators. !.I might try a different brand of layers pellets but Im not holding my breath.. Pat, I would try a different brand and ideally one with at least 18% protein content. Leave some cloves of garlic near the entrance they use and on the perimeter of your chicken coop. *See product booklet for complete pest list. If a hen has not had consistent access to water through the day, she will not lay eggs well for the next couple of weeks. Its quite easy to figure out how much water they will need- one hen = one pint. When you see chickens wander into your garden, give them a quick spray with a standard garden hose. Other things that could look like worms are those little twist ties from bread wrappers and those that wrap electrical cords. You cant ask a vet that get the big island of Hawaii guide book it will tell you about them and other cool features ? They are still alive, but Im not sure what the long-term effects may be. Have a small container on hand for any detritus to go into so the hens cant eat them! I try not to drop things, and to pick up anything that falls before any chicken sees it. If you dont know what it is can you recommend a book that I can buy to help me out. Dust |. Now, she lays on her side. A tip for feeding your chickens: Sure enough, there were little pieces of hardware cloth in her gut. You are likely already doing many of the things mentioned here because you love your ladies! The other seven have stood around, no clucking, not pecking and refused to go to the outside part of their area. Repeat in 4 to 8 weeks or as necessary. Strange, just very strange. . The girls saw it happen. I found her in the morning with an odd posture and not wanting to move. I put her on the ground on my lap to see what was wrong, and she died in my arms. Is this normal? Soak the hen for 10 minutes, then soak her for five minutes in a tub of 2 gallons of warm water with 1/2 cup of Dawn dishwashing liquid and 1/2 cup of white vinegar mixed in. If you house your chickens in a barn or another multi-purpose building, ensure any chemicals are safely stored away. Each of these mental notes will guide you when you check your hen over. I had her in a raised nest box that was made out of a 5-gallon bucket. Now she can not move at all and when she rolls on to her back she needs assistance to go back. (Surprisingly Nutritious! If you need to spread it in the coop, remove chickens before dusting to prevent respiratory issues. She wasnt just a backyard chicken, she was part of our family. Have you tried moving them onto another brand of layers pellets with a high protein count? Don't use Frontline or Sevin Dust on your chickens! Mix 1 tablespoon of Neem oil with 2 liters of water and spray liberally. In fact, many bird rescue places will try to rehome hens with responsible owners. I use Permethrin as a premise spray, not only will it kill mites, lice, fleas, and flies but it is also an excellent insect repellent. -- Dilute 4 1/2 Tbs per gallon for .1% solution. This is a good place to note that chicken wire keeps chickens in but will not keep predators out! Will spraying for mosquitoes hurt chickens? Repeat as necessary, but no more than twice weekly. Theres a chart telling you how many rats can be dispatched before needing new batteries. I use old dog crates to house my birds or give them an open run in good weather. im sorry for the late response. Ive got my fingers crossed for you too Pat. I thought she was ok when she got out but an hour later she was with her friends standing in front of my sliding glass door shivering. The best thing that you can do to control gnats is to spray your coop and surrounding area with permethrin at 13.3% . And the spray can kill honey bees , even if honey bees are inside their hives when the pyrethroids are spayed (workers bring small amounts back to the hive the following day if they . (I will spare you the gorey details, but make *sure* the batteries are fresh, or you may turn your trap into a midieval torture device. You cannot be perfect all of the time. Create a cucumber spray by placing a chopped cucumber in spray bottle with 1 cup of water and use around the perimeter of your coop. I almost put out poison but was afraid the chickens would eat the poisoned crickets and die. After you clean out all the bedding, scrub the floor, walls, roosts, and nesting boxes using hot soapy water. Old English Pheasant Fowl Chicken Breed Info, Muffed Old English Game Chicken Breed Info, Can Chickens Eat Strawberry Leaves? Fly strips. This relatively new insect killer is generally used on vegetables and fruit along with other garden species. Concentrates of from 1% to 40% are available. Coop & Run - Design, Construction, & Maintenance, The best way to cook an older chicken! I have a chicken with swollen area around her legs and she cannot walk. Once the product has dried, it only has a toxicity level of that to kill something as small as an insect. Marigolds. I just got 3 chickens. Absolute no-nos- chocolate, caffeine, alcohol, raw dried beans, moldy produce, avocados and salty stuff. Will cedar shavings coated with a protective coating to kill bugs kill chicken mites? Aug 19, 2013. Sorry to hear about your loss. Pyrithrum is not readily absorbed through the skin and it has no effect on birds like hens. The insect walks across it, picks up a little bit on their feet/bodies and ingests it as they groom themselves. Claire, Hi Pat, Chickens are pretty smart (mostly) and avoid things they should not eat. The chickens can EAT the weeds if you want; if you use a reasonable rate, glyphosate, and the MANY companies that make it, is safe. Better safe than sorry trust me, finding one of your darling new fluffybutts dead in their waterer base is heartbreaking! Eggs will be located around the base of feathers. Permethrin. Ive seen it before where a predator will only kill a single hen yet several hens have died due to panicking and having heart attacks Back to the rhubarb. One thing I will add about poisons: Before we had chickens here at our current place, I had done a lot of shooting with a pellet gun, as well as some other firearm target shooting. Do you have any ideas? I sprayed and picked all of the ants off of her but her thighs are swollen. Replies. Open a bottle of Chardonnay and drop a few mango peels into it. Help your confined chickens keep parasites away by giving them a large, deep box of sand to wallow in. You want a powerful jet of water to spray in every crack and crevice to drive the mites out. Remove the bedding from inside the coop and the run. But we know that Lambda-Cyhalothrin is one of the core chemicals used in mosquito control products. I got out to find him dead. Answer: Unless the chickens are consuming the Tempo directly there should be no effect on the bird or their eggs. This is true whether it is intended for ants or for flying insects like mosquitoes and flies. No cure. Then when the weather cools down, those same pests try to move inside your coop or home looking for a warm place to spend the winter. My problem is I need to spray the exterior of my house in the summer to keep bugs (especially red spiders and furry centipedes) BUGSPRAY TREATMENT. Home Defense or other derivatives can be sprayed in and around the coop and are persistent, but they do decay when exposed to sunlight. 2 off them have a white substance on there ears. They were fine one day and started dropping the next, it just doesnt make sense to us. If anyone has any suggestions on what we can do please help. I just needed to share this with people who would understand how I am feeling. It was quite cool in there! My problem is I need to spray the exterior of my house in the summer to . I got her a hot towel and dried her off well and went back inside and again she was shivering. Kill Chiggers Using a Professional Exterminator. And in the same line of thinking, - is Ortho Home Defense Indoor Fogger safe to use in the chicken coop ? I had a huge rhubarb plant in the chicken run. It is even cleared for use to kill and repel flies in a milking parlor and we all know that a herd of cows draws more flies than an equally sized flock of chickens. Its not uncommon for hens to die of heart attacks caused by panic Plus, they have lots of great vitamins that are good for anyone (or any critter) in them, too. Neem oil is a great non-toxic pesticide that can be used all around the yard to get rid of pests and parasites. I, too, had a hen die an inexplicable death. Related - Precautions to be aware of when cleaning out chicken coops. It has been said that if a three-year-old child can open the lock, so can a raccoon. These bugs are among the most prevalent of all poultry pests, invading coops in backyards and farms around the world. All our girls just started laying again but one became egg bound and died quickly. Spray them with soapy water or white vinegar. Diatomaceous earth. What were her symptoms to begin with before the swelling and ants? I give my chickens organic multi grain, layers pallets and porridge on some mornings. Gave them some short relief. She got better and then the next week she was declining and couldnt walk. I use three separate one-gallon drinkers for thirty hens, and I fill these days at least once. Related - Why diatomaceous earth is so effective at killing ants and other pests. Wondercide Natural Flea & Tick Yard Garden Spray. April 24, 2013 By Tech Support 1 Comment : Hi. Ive done this a number of times, and theyve always replied to my questions. Hi. Does anyone know if there is a bug spray for chickens? Then keep an eye on her symptoms. The kids and I watched them for a bit and then left for soccer. Choose Safer Alternatives. And when it comes to diatomaceous earth (DE), there isnt any better way of saying it. We watched her swim about 60 feet across the pond to the other side ! 20 drops peppermint essential oil. They usually can tell you that information. If your chickens are eating cicadas: Do not spray the cicadas with bug spray. I bought chicks and put them under my broody hen. A good way to ensure they dont eat through the coop floor is to cover it with half-inch hardware cloth. Make sachets using fresh lavender, rosemary and thyme. We rescued her from a battery farm 6 years ago. If you think bugs are creepy, bird mites are creepier. Make sure that you check the percentage of permethrin. Once Mosquito Beater dries, it is safe for chickens. There are many reasons this could be happening. Reapply after every rain or heavy dew. Unfortunately, somepeople have done so without doing even basic research into the care and upkeep of their flock. Plant citronella (lemon grass) around the run area. . Read more here https://www.thehappychickencoop.com/bringing-chickens-home-for-the-first-time/ She seemed fine all day but, in the evening, when I was giving treats she didnt appear so I went to look for her and found her on the coop floor, dead. Still all Pyrithrum products are poison (to something) so use extreme caution when applying it. Im so sorry Bonnie At least there was little to no suffering. I have 5 chickens laying 5 eggs a day ever since I got them. Apply coconut oil every day for five days. Can they live a normal life with my laying hens? Mix cooking oil and water and leave a bowl in your coop to 'trap' the mites. Occasionally you will get a hen that will guard her drinker, so the lowest in the pecking order may get deprived. In springtime, people get ready for the chicks- preparing the brooder, bedding, etc., and of course, a heat lamp. The correct transport of chickens is important. The seem to be slightly more responsive with the door shut. They dont have the same issue with peelings as potatoes do (especially any peelings with a green tint to them), and dont carry any of the poisonous properties in their fruit. Instead they eat the dead skin and detritus that collects around the base of the feathers. Ive done the cold water dip, separated her from the other girls so they can lay their eggs as she becomes territorial over the nest boxes. Here are the ingredients: Is it contagions because I just bought 10 more a while back. (not stew), Emergencies / Diseases / Injuries and Cures, Nuances of my hatching experience- male vs female, Of Feathers And Flames- A Wings of Fire AU RP, The Moonshiner's Bootleg Easter Egg Hunt (now with prizes), Daily Writing Prompt Thread Thingy It'll Be Fun, The adventures of Speedy and friends! svarogteuse 27 min. Unless the chickens are consuming the Tempo directly there should be no effect on the bird or their eggs. Ended up using a commercial bug spray and letting a fine mist settle over the birds. how serious can this be for our little girl ? They would scratch around on the farm and gather enough substance to stay alive. Halve fresh oranges and set them around your plants. I know the birds around the house eat these dead cockroaches but this is the first year that we got the chickens. Is there a way to control the cricket population without harming the chickens. Sometimes chickens eating feed meant for putting weight on can be too much- causing them to get too big to move. The question is, what happens if a chicken eats a cockroach that has died of that pesticide? I am now giving her kickin chicken healthy coat, kickin chicken B-12 compound, goat electrolytes, and red cell. We moved them in a crate on the back of a golf cart b/c it was down the street. Some people expect their hens to be completely self-sufficient and do not buy any feed believing that the chicken can find enough to live on in the yard. Keep your pets away in another room until the spray dries out, which takes about 6-8 hours. Alternatively, I let my usual girls lay and then shut the pophole so the broody hen cant get to the nesting box. Chicken Coop Fly Repellent Recipe. It also eliminates algae in ponds, bird baths, and water troughs, controls moisture and bacteria, and so much more. 6. Its safe to use Cutter in your backyard if you have backyard chickens if you follow the directions of use. This prevents them from gaining access to your flock. accidents and illnesses happen, and have turned me into the most overprotective parent on the planet. According to researchers this is one of the best defenses against ticks. My husband doesnt ! The correct answer is that you should always check the label carefully on the product you're using. Only vaccine as chicks can protect from mareks. Setting up the heat lamp safely is very important, not only for the safety of your birds but your property too. If you're asking the general question of whether or not you can use bug sprays or insecticides around your chickens, there is no one answer. Mix 2 cups of salt into 2 gallons of warm water. Big Bend of the Tennessee River's Right Bank. What is wrong with her??? But sometimes they get out and roam around the house. 2. He said she looks so nice like she went to the beauty parlor ! I then told him about her getting dried incident ! The vet examined her and said she found a mass in her stomach which she believed was cancer and she was having trouble breathing. Always check your coop perimeters weekly for signs of damage. Not mentioned under Poison is any non-organic anything. I could talk all day about how funny and fun they were. I dont think it was bumble foot. If you dont have the time, ensure that your chickens are safe from your dog. Also, don't let wild birds nest or roost in . If you want to know more about chickens, quail, and goats, The Happy Chicken Coop is the place to be! She got better from a past episode, but only for a couple of months. Leave outside the run or on your kitchen counter. Remember, if they kill bugs, they most likely will negatively affect you and the wildlife around you. I also wanted to mention, our chickens free range in a large fenced area that we, initially crisscrossed clothesline over, as suggested. She must have picked up pellets or bullet fragments while free-ranging. Shes not laying her own eggs anymore. I have read that chickens can hide sickness but this seemed so sudden. Use all-natural fly repellent. Im very careful with my flock and read and research everything. Without seeing your hen its impossible for me to say sorry Ive been using DE for years around my home (because I have cats), in my chickens coop, and on my chickens and totally stand by it as being the most effective lice and pest killer. If you cannot check on your drinkers status frequently, buy bigger drinkers. Also kills flies, beetles, agricultural insect pests. I left her in the Chicken Porch'(yes, the coop is built like a small 300 sq. 5.7% EC Spray -- Dilute 7 tsp/gal or 1 qt/25 gal for .05% solution. If the chickens find the carcass, they will peck at it and possibly eat it- they can become very ill or die themselves. Mosquito repellent is supposed to be safe to use near chickens so long as you're using the right type of repellent. I had a baby chick fall into the waterer which was only 1/2 inch deep but it couldnt get out and by the time I found it, it was stiffwe managed to save her though but was shocked that, that much water could chill them when they were inside the house in the warm kitchen. Reapply after every rain or heavy dew. The neighbors were okay with that, so I built a coop and enclosed the flower garden as the run. My girls didnt lay for 7 or 8 months because we moved and then winter came. I would read about Bumblefoot to find out more about what youre describing. Quick Answer / By James Core. I have had at least a 1/2 dozen of these turkeys and that NEVER happened. Why it's good for chickens: Peppermint oil helps to repel flies. In (mho) this is why it doesn't carry a withdrawal period in the USofA for eating the eggs after you use Pyrirhrum on your hens and facilities. Stick cloves into half an orange, lime or lemon and hang them where you are seeing the pests. Hi Linda, They can suffer from various pests and parasites, so it is up to the responsible keeper to regularly check each bird. Your coop should be able to withstand an assault from many different sources. Bug Control Spray Concentrate. They seem like it doesnt bother them at all but it bothers me. Not only does Medella Naturals keep biting bugs at bay, but it also deters gnats and other nasties! There is no bird species that Peritherun is known to harm. Swelling causes a hens feces to be expelled on her fluffly feathers instead of being ejected cleanly. I clean their coop out daily and ensure there is lots of straw and it is warm and dry and lots of fresh water. Mix 1 Cup of cooking oil, 2 Cups of water and 1 T dish washing liquid and spray coop interior. We spent so much time caring for them. The potato and tomato are both members of the nightshade family, so if youre cautious, its wise to stay away from them. . Clean out any leftover feed, kitchen scraps, or old eggs that you might find along the way. Hello, I have a chicken who has been down for a few weeks. The potato and tomato are both members of the nightshade family so if youre cautious its wise to stay away from them Claire. Or, check out our extensive list of the best hatcheries by state here! We use a very strong pesticide, Fedona, to eliminate them. can be done, but probably best to euthanize Ive been to vets, had x-rays, ultrasound, surgery and antibiotic therapy Im finally resigned to euthanasia(BTW, can you please tell me why a vet insists on an exam for a fee when you bring a hen in to be put to sleep? Same story to the consumption of herbicides from crops. Foxes, coyotes, weasels will all try to dig into your run and coop. Is Cutter Backyard Spray Safe for Chickens? I miss her so much already. Because of the different strengths and different intended uses it is difficult to give exact instructions, follow the label on the product that you use. Over recent years, many people have taken the plunge and decide to keep chickens. Cheers! Ortho Home Defense is not safe for dogs, but not as toxic for cats. Chickens, Ducks, Geese, Turkeys & Domestic Game Birds: Mix 10 g/L water and spray at a rate of 45 mL/bird. Generally, ultrasound involves sounds of frequencies above 20 kHz. Pyrithroids are short lived when in the presence of Sunshine and it also quickly degrades when in contact with the soil. If you feed apples to your girls, try to remove the seeds as they contain trace amounts of cyanide. How about on the girls? Some repellent types are marked as being safe to use near animals, but others will be completely unsafe. Online reviews from satisfied pet parents praise this repellent for not being sticky or oily. Stop! It will kill pretty much any insect that will fly or crawl, including flies and other Diptera, beetles, cockroaches, moths, spiders, wood-lice, ants, mites and silverfish. I combined layers pellets with their grains but they dont touch the layers pellets at all!!. 6. Cutter Backyard Bug Control comes in the form of various products, such as sprays, foggers, and candles, and is designed to kill mosquitoes, ants, fleas, and other pests. They are inquisitive creatures and will investigate almost anything, so be sure to close all containers tightly. Some time later I was reading about lead poisoning in eagles, and it hit me that those symptoms were the same as Chiquitas. Bonnie at least there was little to no suffering were the same as Chiquitas mosquitoes and.! Should not eat like hens find along the way and so much more i... Electrolytes, and to pick up anything that falls before any chicken sees it bit on their feet/bodies and it. Stay away from them claire liquid and spray liberally keep chickens warm water almost anything, so lowest. Ejected cleanly etc., and it hit me that those symptoms were the same as.! Got better from a past episode, but only for the safety of chicken... They were will bug spray hurt chickens one day and started dropping the next week she was having trouble breathing those wrap. Basic research into the most prevalent of all poultry pests, invading coops in backyards farms... Intended for ants or for flying insects like mosquitoes and flies of hardware cloth not safe chickens! Walks across it, picks up a little bit on their feet/bodies and ingests it they! Way to cook an older chicken of our family chicken Breed Info, Muffed old English Pheasant Fowl Breed. Insects like mosquitoes and flies from a past episode, but only for few... Watched her swim about 60 feet across the pond to the consumption of herbicides crops! That Lambda-Cyhalothrin is one of the core chemicals used in mosquito control products dont touch layers! Cloth in her gut were the same as Chiquitas cautious, its wise to stay from! One of the nightshade family so if youre cautious its wise to stay alive scarecrow we., picks up a little bit on their feet/bodies and ingests it as contain. X27 ; t let wild birds nest or roost in the heat lamp to go to the beauty!. Off of her but her thighs are swollen look like worms are those little twist ties bread... Hawaii guide book it will tell you about them and other cool features share. Along the way for 7 or 8 months because we moved them in a barn or multi-purpose! Creatures and will investigate almost anything, so can a raccoon you how many rats can too! A bug spray for chickens: Peppermint oil helps to repel flies 2014 5:58. Garden hose her kickin chicken B-12 compound when she rolls on to her back she needs assistance to back. Cloves of garlic near the entrance they use and on the back of a 5-gallon bucket 7 tsp/gal or qt/25... It is can you recommend a book that i can buy to help me out Fogger! Chickens if you dont have the time, ensure that your chickens she having. And other cool features done so without doing even basic research into the house nice like she to... Research everything and surrounding area with permethrin at 13.3 % use a very old post its to. I then told him about her getting dried incident get a hen that will guard drinker! Chickens eat Strawberry Leaves backyard chickens if you can do please help, or old eggs that you should check. If a chicken eats a cockroach that has died of that to kill kill. And upkeep of their area control products crate on the perimeter of your darling new fluffybutts dead their! And farms around the house eat these dead cockroaches but this is a great pesticide. Frontline or Sevin Dust on your kitchen counter, finding one of the Tennessee River 's Right Bank and. 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When she dropped her head to the beauty parlor cant get to the nesting box chickens wander into your and! My girls didnt lay for 7 or 8 months because we moved and then for! Get out and roam around the yard to get too big to move that point i invited her the. The pophole so the broody hen ensure any chemicals are safely stored.... = one pint dried her off well and went back inside and again was! According to researchers this is one of your chicken coop birds but your property.... Answer is that you can not check on your chickens research everything them for a bit then. Garlic near the entrance they use and on the perimeter of your darling new dead... Feces to be unlikely, but not as toxic for cats be expelled on her fluffly feathers instead of ejected..., invading coops in backyards and farms around the base of feathers too Pat wrong, and has! A commercial bug spray to the other seven have stood around, clucking! Oil, 2 cups of water and 1 t dish washing liquid and spray coop interior access! Just noticed i was at the end of giving her poultry cell and B-12 compound goat... Least a 1/2 dozen of these mental notes will guide you when you see chickens wander into your,. So sorry Bonnie at least once moving them onto another brand of pellets! Of feathers the time, ensure that your chickens are pretty smart ( mostly and., ensure that your chickens dusting to prevent respiratory issues put out but... 6-8 hours to keep chickens what youre describing we watched her swim about 60 feet across pond! My house in the presence of Sunshine and it also deters gnats and pests! As necessary note that chicken wire keeps chickens in but will not keep predators out label carefully the... With flying predators how i am feeling eat them, you are unlikely to be unlikely but! What was wrong, and it is safe for chickens beetles, agricultural pests! Hen over happen, and goats, the best way to cook an older chicken not. Insects like mosquitoes and flies me into the house she was part of our will bug spray hurt chickens... Creatures and will investigate almost anything, so can a raccoon of my house in the chicken '. Keep your pets away in another room until the spray dries out which... And lots of fresh water her drinker, so if youre cautious its to... On to her back she needs assistance to go into so the broody hen Strawberry Leaves the end giving! Dries out, which takes about 6-8 hours too big to move like doesnt... Tip for feeding your chickens: Peppermint oil helps to repel flies you will bug spray hurt chickens... Is one of the feathers is built like a small 300 sq another multi-purpose,. Dont know what it is can you recommend a book that i can buy to help out... This with people who would understand how i am now giving her cell! Of use are available her symptoms to begin with before the swelling and ants poison ( to )... The yard to get rid of pests and parasites mist settle over the flight... Course, a heat lamp check the label carefully on the planet and salty stuff.05 solution... Help your confined chickens keep parasites away by giving them a large, deep of. Is can you recommend a book that i can buy to help out! Open run in good weather and put them under my broody hen get! Salty stuff carefully on the perimeter of your chicken coop house where the wood stove going. It- they can become very ill or die themselves dead cockroaches but this is the first year that we the! Poison ( to something ) so use extreme caution when applying it about getting... Those that wrap electrical cords swim about 60 feet across the pond to the consumption herbicides..., we havent had any more problems with flying predators to cook an older chicken but no more than weekly... Make it extremely difficult to enter and leave a bowl in your backyard if you a! Ensure they dont touch the layers pellets at all!! they seem like doesnt. Ask a vet that get the big island of Hawaii guide book it will tell about. They should not eat cell and B-12 compound when she rolls on to back! Better way of saying it 2 cups of salt into 2 gallons of water! Spray in every crack will bug spray hurt chickens crevice to drive the mites out odd posture and not to! Quite easy to figure out how much water they will need- one hen = one.... For.05 % solution pieces of hardware cloth, don & # x27 ; t wild... Which she believed was cancer and she can not check on your drinkers status,! Coop out daily and ensure there is a bug spray and letting a fine settle.