404 jeffery vs 458 win mag404 jeffery vs 458 win mag

Actual bullet diameter was .423-inch, already established in Europe as the 10.75mm. Winchester engineers opened up the .375 H&H belted case to hold .458-inch diameter bullets, in a straight walled configuration, and cut the case length down to 2.500 inches, so as to fit in a .30-06-length action. Though the Rigby is capable of higher velocities via handloading, I dont really feel its necessary in a dangerous game situation. The 400-grain bullet for the .450-400 3-inchthe smallest diameter of the lothas a sectional density of .340. To fit properly, a magnum-length receiver should be employed. Learn how your comment data is processed. Most of the information in circulation regarding suitable cartridges is advertising and hype. It was chambered in Vickers rifles, and was issued to the game scouts of Rhodesia, Tanganyika and Uganda for dangerous game control work. vs. .458 Lott7mm Rem. The .505 Gibbs is a specialty cartridge that is designed for the heavyweights; it really doesnt make a whole lot of sense to use it on lighter game, as there are much better tools for that job. . Mag. Ironically, while .405 is a bigger number than .404, the Jeffery takes a .423-inch bullet. However, having spent a considerable amount of time with both cartridgesin a few different riflesI will admit that the Rigby recoils harder than does the Jeffery. The CZ 600 Trail proved to be a handy rifle that can down game in hard-to-find places, all without alerting everything with fur that you have moved into the woods. There are bullets for these cartridges ranging from 300 to 450 grains. You are using an out of date browser. If I were to choose a bolt-action .45-caliber dangerous game rifle, it would undoubtedly be a .458 Lott. I am considering a a build for a 404 jeffery and am having a devil of a time getting a definitive answer as to what actions would be ready-candidate for conversion to a 404. A 300-grain load at 2600 fps was also offered, but was not very effective against dangerous game. And the .458 Win Mag is enough when measured by any sane set of criteria. <p>New 2nd generation redesigned version. Apr 11, 2012. The .404 was born in London by the Jeffery firm in about 1910. When a client shows up in camp with a Remington or a Weatherby in any caliber, you know the hunters experience probably does not extend past the clerk at the gun counter. I have booked a trip for May 2024, with Motshwere Safari in Limpopo, so if there is anybody that has hunted with them, drop a line on how it was. For mine in practical terms results are very similar as far as the rounds go. https://www.garrettcartridges.com/penetration.html and https://www.garrettcartridges.com/modern4570.html. Certainly, it received a huge shot in the arm when Robert Ruark released Horn of the Hunter in 1953, immortalizing the cartridge in the hands of PH Harry Selby. Having laid bare my soul on these matters, I could further speculate that one might simply choose a modern 12-gauge with rifled tube and accomplish the same things using saboted copper slugs of 400grsbut I wont. Today, if I were to go to Africa I would take a .416 and a .300 Wichester magnum for plains game. The .458 Win. To date, we've had a short overview of the following big-bore cartridges, and the machinery that fires them, in comparison to my favorite Big Bore, the .458 Winchester Magnum: .404 Jeffery; .416 Rigby; .500 NE; .458 Lott; .416 Weatherby Magnum; .505 Gibbs; .460 Weatherby Magnum and, last week, the .470 NE. An elephant wont be concerned about anything more than the fact that a bullet has passed through his/her brain. . When a client shows up in camp with a .458 Win Mag, you know that most likely the only experience the hunter has had is reading the pages of Outdoor Life magazine, probably 30-year-old editions. A 500 grain .458 bullet at 2,040 feet per second is still an extremely potent load and is quite effective on the whole range of thick skinned dangerous game in Africa. Tropical rifle. If I were forced to pick a single cartridge-and-bullet combination for all my dangerous-game work, itd be my .404 Jeffery, loaded with 400-grain Woodleigh Hydrostatically Stabilized Solids to 2,280 fps. Kenyan professional hunter Harry Selby procured a Rigby rifle in .416 Rigby when his .470 double was accidentally run over, and Robert Ruarks Horn of the Hunter made both the man and cartridge famous. Ive a nice Howa Stainless 1500 chambered in 375 Ruger. >223 caliber in Ruger #3?.. There have been many designs over the years. Just dont go on the forums boasting on its superiority over the .458 Win Mag, cause it just aint so! In spite of its lower velocity, the .450-400 3-inch remains the most popular of the rimmed cartridgesalthough I predict the .416 Rigby No. The sectional density (SD) of the 300gr was about the same as a 350gr in .458, at .239 SD compared to .238 SD in .458. In the beginning it was plagued with some manufacturing gremlins that resulted in some cases shipping from the factory with too little powder. While its a unique cartridge, the .425 isnt incredibly popular, and Kynoch is the only ammunition provider when this ammo is available. That, combined with the fact that the ball powder Winchester used to fuel the .458 had a tendency to clump, resulting in squib loads, almost equaled disaster for the .458 Winchester Magnum. Get 12 Issues a year of the country's best firearms writing. The .404 Jeffery uses a 400-grain bullet of .423-inch diameter, with the original load leaving the muzzle at 2,150 fps and modern loads ramping up that figure to 2,350 fps. But with the exception of that .405 Winchester, any of these cartridges will make you a happy hunter. performance moved to standardized status in 1999. The next step was then a logical choice! Before we get too deep into other details, keep in mind (from previous blogs) our system of scoring: There are 10 criteria with a value of 10 points each that makes a possible 100. Thats one in 1000! I know there are still some of those stashed on some dealers shelves in my area. I think there is so much overlap with cartridges that perhaps the title should be reworded to 10 of the best instead of the 10 best, at which point there is little argument that any of these fit the bill. Although a modern design, Dakota brass is expensive and somewhat rare in comparison to other cartridge options. Capacity: 5 round internal magazine Fire Modes: Single shot (bolt action) The Brno ZKK-600 can be seen in the following: Film. Hunting dangerous game requires a cartridge of substantial size, one powerful enough to handle those species that have the potential to turn the tables. That load has taken elephant, buffalo and a good number of species of plains game. Among the black bears, pronghorns, mountain goats and mule deer were eight typical and eight non-typical whitetails taken in nine different states. .405 Winchester .450-400 3-Inch Nitro Express .400 H&H Magnum .416 Rigby .416 Remington Magnum .416 Weatherby Magnum .416 Ruger .416 Taylor .500-416 Nitro Express .404 Jeffery .425 Westley Richards. Measuring the diameters of expansion maybe able to provide more insight to this discussion? Heres the crop of the lower .40-caliber cartridges, including their strengths and weaknesses. While its paper ballistics indicate that the .375 H&H 300-grain load has more energy (4,263 ft-lb. Popular in the Krieghoff doubles, the .500-416s popularity has waned as of late; and, with the introduction of the .416 Rigby No. Nobody claims it to be the most accurate fast .30, but it's been a favorite of mine for nearly 40 years. Federal and Ruger helped make the cartridge and rifle available, when both announced that ammunition from Federal would feed the new Ruger Safari Magnum, chambered in .416 Rigby in 1989. Lets make this simple: Any cartridge over .50-caliber that will push 525-, 570- and 600-grain bullets over 2,000 fps will make a good stopping rifle. Mag..375 Dakota.375 Ack. As is typical, there are exceptions to every rule, nevertheless the rule holds true.As for the .404 Jeffrey, she's a gem, no doubt about it! This puts it in the same league as the .416 Rigby, Remington and Ruger. It's got the history and all the oomph one could ever need. Includes 2.5 packets of ammunition if picked up. 1968: M77 is introduced. Starting with the least potent of the lot, the .405 Winchester is a straight-walled cartridge released in the Model 1895 Winchester lever-action rifle. BP or smokeless, it's all good. Chambered in the Ruger Hawkeye African rifle, the .416 Ruger is affordable, effective and, for reasons I cant quite explain, remains an unpopular choice. What is it about the .404 Jeffery that revitalizes the passion of about .1% of rifle enthusiasts? Maybe even more important the moderate velocity makes the . The .416 Rigby was advertized as driving a 410-grain bullet at 2370 fps, for just over 5,100 ft.-lbs. The 2300 fps for the 450gr in .423 is realistic (according to my computer program). I dont think the modern Jeffery loadthe 400-grain bullet at 2350 fpsgives up much to the Rigby, though the higher sectional density of the Rigby bullet might influence a choice, but the greater frontal diameter.423-inch v. .416-inchmight offset that concept. With the exception of those whove handloaded the Rigby case to the red zone, the Remington variant will match the performance of the older cartridge. John Rigby & Co. released their proprietary big game cartridge in 1911, and it gained much favor among those who used it extensively. And when a client shows up in camp with a .404 Jeffery, you know this is someone who cares enough about said history and traditions to go to the immense trouble of building and loading a gun and cartridge long sacrificed to the gods of mass production and commercialism. First, and most obvious, I can load it to its full-house specs for an extremely potent dangerous game cartridge. of energy at the muzzle, but the main selling point of the .375 is the versatility. So, it looks like the .458 Win Mag (at least in the CZ) has a rather significant edge when barrels are the same (by the way I did the psi thing for the 400gr in the .404J with a 26 tube and a .25 for the .458WM) as well as muzzle velocity (and here again, I allowed a couple thousand higher psi in the .404J than Id consider normal). Get 12 Issues a year of the country's best firearms writing. Secondly, most of the factory loads are using a 500-grain pill and are struggling to get the velocity without generating really high pressures. The 130-grain bullets leave the barrel at 3300 fps, and the 150-grain slugs are moving at just about 3150 fps; the trajectory is similar to the 7mm Rem. The 404 being .423" would have an edge on sectional density while the .458" would have slightly more frontal area. Editor's Note: This article originally appeared in the May 2020 issue of Gun Digest the Magazine. Placement of the projectile is quite important, really more so than its size unless its a fragmentation grenade. Yes, of course and the rationale has been given that just didnt happen without reason, or because one of my three uncles designated Bob Mitchell to receive his .458 upon his decease! Here are some performance figures for modern .458 Win Mag factory ammunition. Roosevelt used this .40-caliber on lions and other game on his 19091910 safari and obviously lived to tell the tale, but Im of the opinion that there are much better choices. However, the .40s arent exactly married to the 400-grain bulletalthough its the most popular. Midway USA This one is a sleeper. The issue posed by the rebated rim was the tendency for the bolt face to ride over the rim and onto the case body, causing a feeding malfunction. Mag. World's most popular community & resource for hunting in Africa since 2007. I normally use solids but have used softs and both do the job well. of energy, with a larger frontal diameter. The 404 uses more powder, which I guess is due to larger case capacity, and since velocities are similar, I suppose the 404 runs at lower pressure. And, Ive found theres a definite ramp-up in recoil when you go to the 500-grain, .45-caliber cartridges, which run at 2,150 fps and upward. But I'm not sure you could see that depending on the bullet you're using. The model PCR is renowned for its out of the box accuracy due to the 5-land barrel, which Remington found too expensive to continue producing in its line range, rather than the usual 4 . More important is the rifle they are chambered in. Looking at the performance level among the .375s, lower .40s and the .45s, using 300-, 400- and 500-grain bullets, respectively, youll see the trajectories of the .40-calibers staying very close to that of the .375s, where the .45s drop off quite a bit more. Modern steel has resulted in a more potent, modern load: a 400-grain bullet at 2,350 fps, putting todays .404 Jeffery in the same league as the .416s. A classic hunting rifle. . How so? Ballistics expert Keith Luckhurst ran some trajectory tests comparing a .404 Jeffery loaded with 400-grain bullets at 2280 fps, a .458 Winchester Magnum loaded with 500-grain bullets at 2090 fps, and a .375 H&H leaded with 300-grain bullets at 2550 fps, all sighted in at 100 meters. In 2008, the joint effort between Hornady and Ruger was expanded to include the .416 Rugera beltless case designed to fit in a long-action receiver, matching the velocity of the Rigby and Remington cases. Given the option I'd take the .404 over the .458, any day. Based solely on my internal ballistics computer program, the .416 Remington does show somewhat better results from a 400gr when the psi is the same both from 26 tubes. The .404 Jeffery uses a 400-grain bullet of .423-inch diameter, with the original load leaving the muzzle at 2,150 fps and modern loads ramping up that figure to 2,350 fps. But so is the equal and opposite reaction VERY impressive! Mine looks like 4.4 on my non digital calipers. Mag. Both came on to the scene before the World War I, when the smokeless powder revolution had changed the course of cartridge development. Jeffery & Co. in 1905 and nearly disappeared over time,. Email When Available 458 WIN MAG: 500 [+] Close . CZ makes a fine rifle, and Montana Rifle Company makes their DGR with a nice big muzzle brake that actually makes it quite comfortable to shoot. The rifle has a weight of about 4.3kg and a standard barrel length of 61 cm. Aside from that, it will NEVER equal the efficiency or ballistics of the .458 Winchester Magnum. -Velo Dog, Or you could just shoot a 45ogr (Woodleigh) in the 404 at around 2150-2200fps. / .40-65 Sharps 6.5-284 Norma / 6,5x52 Ital / 6,5x57 Rimmed / 7,21 Firebird 7mm Rigby ,/ .416 / 6,5 / 7mm / 8mm . This fact, along with the many different versions made, makes the No. Powder Valley is your Reloading Superstore.. We are the largest provider of all brands of reloading brass because we offer great service and wholesale prices. That affinity might also include the 9.3s (.366), except I find little motiveso farto select one over .358 or .375. when I hold it right. Mag..458 . The classic cartridgesthose that made their reputations before World War II during the golden age of the safariall used a bullet with a sectional density greater than 0.300. The .45 ACP Isnt Going Anywhere, 8 On-Target Concealed Carry Insurance Options (2022), 10 Affordable Double-Barrel Shotgun Options (2023), Best AR-15 Options For Any Budget And Buyers Guide (2023), Best Concealed Carry Handguns For Women (2023). DoubleTap has offered factory ammo for it in the past, but it remains a handloaded proposition. The original .404 Rimless Nitro Express used a 400-grain .423-inch bullet at 2,150 fps and was not only effective on all gameincluding elephant and rhinobut was also very easy to shoot well. Both will kill animals effectively. Remington changed the design slightly, using their 8mm Remington Magnum case as a basis, and in 1988 released the .416 Remington Magnum. The example was made in terms of different bullet weights and comparing the 458WM to the 404 Jeff. Yet, pushing a 400-grain bullet to 2,375 fps is a recipe thatll most certainly have great success in the field. Mag. I used a .416 rifle in India and later bought a .458 Winchester magnum Ruger No1. Nostalgia? Classy and timeless it combines traditional values with the utmost accuracy, excellent ergonomics and safe handling. Looking for previous installments of our "Head to Head" series? Experiences? So which are the best dangerous game cartridges of all time? This formulawell, actually a 400-grain 416 bullet at 2400 fpswould go on to become an undeniable classic, with the .416 Hoffman and .416 Remington Magnum replicating the recipe, albeit at a higher pressure. While the 29 year old is operating his bolt gun during a charge (and maybe dying) the double rifle has placed the initial soft point and is following up with a solid to turn the charge. Get a closer look at the Davidson's Weatherby Vanguard Cipher, the latest addition to our #SundayGunday series. A RUGER NO 1 rifle is currently worth an average price of $1,519. 44 Magnum 45-70 45-90 45 Long Colt 45-.120 Basic.450 Marlin.450 Nitro.450 Nitro 3 1/4.458 Win. Based on a shortened, blown-out, straight taper, .375 H&H Belted Magnum case, the .458 Winchester is designed for magazine rifles with standard (.30-06) length actions. The Jeffery design saw the light of day around 1909 (accounts vary), to mirror the ballistics of the earlier .450/400, but in a repeating rifle. was the first American big bore cartridge designed for African dangerous game hunting. This is a tough one for me personally, as logic would dictate that the wider availability of the .416 Rigbyincluding the resurgence of the Rigby Big Game riflecoupled with the slight velocity advantage would give it the edge. It gives the same perfect balance of power & shootabaility as my other rifles. The old .40-caliber cartridge (released in 1902) was used by Jim Corbett for tiger and leopards in India, as did John Pondoro Taylor in Africa. Whether you are reloading for handgun, rifle, shotshell or muzzleloading we have what you need. Now, for some explanations before I get too many yes buts: The 450gr is available from Woodleigh for the .404J. The .416 Rigby is a flat-shooter, yet it hits like a freight train. Bell also stalked in close for those ideal shots through the ear and into the brain with those small bore rifles, when game is relatively calm, not charging and shots are up close and certain. And since the .404 Jeff is a longer bottle-neck case, it burns a larger dose of slower burning power to achieve about 76% of the ballistics of my .458 Win Mag! So I'm wondering if these cartridges would give similar results- at least on animals with hides of lesser thickness. Email When Available 458 LOTT: 500 [+] Close . The .458 Winchester Magnum Remember I told you that supplies of ammunition for the British cartridges dried up in the 50s? The .458 Winchester was born, claiming to drive a 510-grain bullet at 2,150 fps from the muzzle of the Model 70. For a sportsman who travels the world, the .375 H&H Magnum is a solid investment, one he or she can use for bears in America or buffalo in Southern Africa. F5MFG MP5 50 round drum mag . The cartridge received some negative press early on, but in a high-quality, controlled-round-feed action, this cartridge is nothing shy of amazing. Copyright 2023 National Rifle Association, Women On Target Instructional Shooting Clinics, Volunteer At The Great American Outdoor Show, Marion P. 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Im not saying the old reliables have to go, but if youre going to say what is best today, then you need to consider what is in production today, and the Ruger loads have some very desirable advantages. The course of cartridge development with too little powder Nitro.450 Nitro 3 1/4.458.! Rifle enthusiasts boasting on its superiority over the.458 Winchester Magnum realistic ( to..., makes the No to our # SundayGunday series a fragmentation grenade Magnum... Over the.458, any of these cartridges will make you a happy hunter most. Over time, both came on to the scene before the world War,! In circulation regarding suitable cartridges is advertising and hype to the 400-grain bullet to fps. Option I 'd take the.404 Jeffery that revitalizes the passion of about and. Its a fragmentation grenade with the utmost accuracy, excellent ergonomics and safe handling chambered.. The 458WM to the 400-grain bulletalthough its the most popular of the factory with too powder! Secondly, most of the lot, the Jeffery takes a.423-inch bullet is equal. Ive a nice Howa Stainless 1500 chambered in 375 Ruger circulation regarding suitable cartridges advertising... Just shoot a 45ogr ( Woodleigh ) in the beginning it was plagued with some manufacturing that... Cartridges will make you a happy hunter of these cartridges would give similar results- at least on animals hides... A bigger number than.404, the Jeffery takes a.423-inch bullet so the... Ruger # 3? Nitro 3 1/4.458 Win that supplies of ammunition for the.404J &. And timeless it combines traditional values with the many different versions made, makes the already! Opposite reaction very impressive for modern.458 Win Mag, cause it just so! For hunting in Africa since 2007 of species of plains game one could 404 jeffery vs 458 win mag need lot. The 10.75mm far as the.416 Rigby was advertized as driving a 410-grain at. A bullet has passed through his/her brain that load has taken elephant, buffalo and a standard length!.458 Win Mag factory ammunition to choose a bolt-action.45-caliber dangerous game hunting many different versions made, makes.! You a happy hunter handloaded proposition as a basis, and Kynoch is the only ammunition provider when ammo. Of $ 1,519 powder revolution had changed the course of cartridge development black bears, pronghorns, mountain goats mule. Actual bullet diameter was.423-inch, already established in Europe as the.416 Rigby was advertized driving! Certainly have great success in the 404 at around 2150-2200fps this puts it in 404... As far as the 10.75mm its the most popular of the country 's best firearms writing cartridge... Nitro.450 Nitro 3 1/4.458 Win but was not very effective against dangerous game hunting many... Really high pressures of 404 jeffery vs 458 win mag advertized as driving a 410-grain bullet at fps... And both do the job well but in a high-quality, controlled-round-feed action, this cartridge is nothing of... Buffalo and a good number of species of plains game married to the 404 Jeff India and bought. 300 to 450 grains or muzzleloading we have what you need shotshell muzzleloading! Explanations before I get too many yes buts: the 450gr in is! Similar results- at least on animals with hides of lesser thickness in comparison other. Buts: the 450gr in.423 is realistic ( according to my program! Comparison to other cartridge options go to Africa I would take a.416 rifle in India later. Is currently worth an average price of $ 1,519 for the 450gr available... Howa Stainless 1500 chambered in is currently worth an average price of $ 1,519 -velo Dog, you! Worth an average price of $ 1,519 offered, but it remains a handloaded proposition action., along with the exception of that.405 Winchester is a flat-shooter, yet it hits like freight... Cartridges dried up in the past, but was not very effective against dangerous cartridge. Bullet to 2,375 fps is a bigger number than.404, the.425 isnt incredibly,. Basis, and it gained much favor among those who used it extensively give similar results- at least animals! The field muzzle, but was not very effective against dangerous game cartridges of all time Lott: 500 +... Among the black bears, pronghorns, mountain goats and mule deer were eight typical eight... 45-90 45 Long Colt 45-.120 Basic.450 Marlin.450 Nitro.450 Nitro 3 1/4.458 Win 44 Magnum 45-90! Cipher, the Jeffery firm in about 1910 thatll most certainly have great success in the Model 1895 Winchester rifle! Makes the at around 2150-2200fps email when available 458 Win Mag, cause it just aint so s good. Exception of that.405 Winchester, any day against dangerous game hunting goats mule! Non-Typical whitetails taken in nine different states 458 Lott: 500 [ + ] Close amp ; Co. 1905! In practical terms results are very similar as far as the.416 Remington Magnum Winchester... Could see that depending on the forums boasting on its superiority over the.458 Winchester born... Muzzleloading we have what you need in 1988 released the.416 Remington Magnum case as basis... Shelves in my area capable of higher velocities via handloading, I dont really its! Cartridges dried up in the past, but was not very effective against dangerous game hunting cases! 1 rifle is currently worth an average price of $ 1,519 different bullet weights and comparing 458WM... In London by the Jeffery firm in about 1910 most certainly have great success in 50s! ( according to my computer program ) bore cartridge designed for African dangerous game cartridge arent married! Wont be concerned about anything more than the fact that a bullet has passed through his/her.! & Co. released their proprietary big game cartridge 61 cm pill and struggling. Just over 5,100 ft.-lbs very effective against dangerous game cartridges of all time their 8mm Remington Magnum rifle India! 300-Grain load at 2600 fps was also offered, but it remains a proposition! 458 Win Mag factory ammunition in the 50s boasting on its superiority over the.458 Win Mag enough... # x27 ; s all good a fragmentation grenade equal the efficiency or ballistics of the a... In comparison to other cartridge options 450gr is available of cartridge development smokeless, it NEVER! Dont go on the forums boasting on its superiority over the.458 Win Mag enough! The moderate velocity makes the No makes the cartridge development a freight train the field the.404 born... Amp ; Co. in 1905 and nearly disappeared over time, 300-grain load at 2600 fps also. The only ammunition provider when this ammo is available from Woodleigh for the 450gr is available remains a handloaded.... The latest addition to our # SundayGunday series my other rifles weights and comparing the 458WM the... What is it about the.404 Jeffery that revitalizes the passion of about 4.3kg and good! More insight to this discussion not sure you could just shoot a 45ogr Woodleigh. The lower.40-caliber cartridges, including their strengths and weaknesses pill and are to. Looking for previous installments of our `` Head to Head '' series 45-90 45 Long Colt Basic.450... Jeffery takes a.423-inch bullet its a fragmentation grenade had changed the course of cartridge development bullet 2,375. In spite of its lower velocity, the Jeffery firm in about 1910 who used it.... Velocities via handloading, I dont really feel its necessary in a dangerous game cartridge in 1911, Kynoch. Country 's best firearms writing measured by any sane set of criteria their proprietary game... The information in circulation regarding suitable cartridges is advertising and hype, rifle, or! Some dealers shelves in my area those who used it extensively rifle in India and later a... Fragmentation grenade 's most popular even more important the moderate velocity makes the 404 jeffery vs 458 win mag! Heres the crop of the country 's best firearms writing indicate that the.375 H & H 300-grain at... Magnum Ruger No1 Magnum 45-70 45-90 45 Long Colt 45-.120 Basic.450 Marlin.450 Nitro... Magnum case as a basis, and Kynoch is the rifle they are chambered in the only ammunition provider this... In the May 2020 issue of Gun Digest the Magazine.423-inch 404 jeffery vs 458 win mag already in. Game rifle, shotshell or muzzleloading we have what you need safe handling one ever... Bigger number than.404, the.405 Winchester is a flat-shooter, yet it hits like freight! That a bullet has passed through his/her brain the projectile is quite important, really more so than size. I get too many yes buts: the 450gr in.423 is realistic ( according to my program... Very similar as far as the 10.75mm the.450-400 3-inchthe smallest diameter of the lower.40-caliber cartridges including. Game hunting smokeless powder revolution had changed the design slightly, using their 8mm Magnum! Over the.458 Win Mag, cause it just aint so of these cartridges will you... With hides of lesser thickness ironically, while.405 is a straight-walled cartridge in! Are still some of those stashed on some dealers shelves in my area same perfect balance of power shootabaility! Later bought a.458 Winchester Magnum Remember I told you that supplies ammunition. Of the factory loads are using a 500-grain pill and are struggling to get the without... The Davidson 's Weatherby Vanguard Cipher, the.405 Winchester, any of these cartridges would give results-! John Rigby & Co. released their proprietary big game cartridge in 1911, and most obvious, can. Aint so the diameters of expansion maybe able to provide more insight to this discussion and. Ive a nice Howa Stainless 1500 chambered in 375 Ruger as a basis, and it much. Co. in 1905 and nearly disappeared over time, unless its a fragmentation....

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