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Interesting, unless you are talking about the driving comfort of the crew I thought we had a couple of long discussions on here where you said main gun bounciness compared to stabilized tanks like the Sherman series are negligible. Lets assume competent players who don't gamble. To say that . However there were so many german prototypes that could have taken it's place. The 341 is practically an closed top, better armoredM42 with more than double the ROF, 40m/s faster velocity, and almost double the explosive filler that doesn't have it crew killed by 7.62s and doesn't explode from a stray bullet hitting it's exposed ammo. 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. Rare, but happens from time to time Few wants to go for the objectives (which is more understandable when you consider the caps' terrible earnings) but fewer want to accept the consequences of not going for them. - If its not, he will hide and wait till you cap. ..and I'm not talking about the vehicles, they're OK-ish. Personally, I'd rather be able to harm an enemy frontally than a bit faster than him but forced to flank. With no premiums in the medium br.s it is difficult to break even. I can go grab the pictures if you'd like as proof. 2. Because of the above, one death leavers can be more common due to a lack of supporting vehicles to respawn with. They are the equivalent to the surge of M22s that the allies occasionally see when some overly loud youtuber decides to make a video about "haha ebic meme tank"causing an influx. The turret is ok, not the best, but gives the 76mm and 85mm some trouble. Yes, with an M18 I am also eaily killed from the front due to lack of armor. If mobility was all that mattered, everyone would be driving around in M18s, M2A4s, A13s, BT-5s and R3s at every BRand yet they dont. All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. Threads 63 Messages 220. . I mean this thing has a chance to kill KT frontally by spamming around the turret ring and it can take out the gun barrel within 2-3 shots.When the M41 of a German player is destroyed, well you can go panther which is not the best when it comes to maneuvering, or perhaps a puma which can get shredded by .50 CAL. How do you bounce on a flat piece of armour? Side turret is 150mm or higher so angling is really easy as well. Come on, seriously? FRENCH ATGMS ARE NON-EXISTENT. For anyone who has ever played War Thunder and certainly for those who have perused the forums, the line Germany suffers! is probably something youve heard before. And that's just fighting american 6.7 with other 6.7s good luck in 5.7 vehicles when you get uptiered, lol. It is really frustrating when we can't have any machine guns on top of the panzers period. Of course the thick armor and good gun can be an advantage. That's just how a downtier works no matter the battlerating. And no matter what is the br setting whatever times you get a new vehicle even at 8.7 you have to start the whole thing again. Selling Top German/UK Tank and Plane & US Top plane with many Premium. And we can't skip over the SPAAs either when discussing counters against CAS. Because its slow and big? That jump is massive and not only deprives the player of the relevant experience they'd get in that 2.3 BRs of progression but also of the lineup for support they'd have if they had the stuff from the BRs in between, As with other nations, one death leavers are a problem for Germany. T-80U only fixes armor (although weakspots veeerrry preminent), slightly better HP/T (still -10 kph reverse though), and a slightly better reload (6.5s but still slightly slower than other 120mms). And the T30 which has a 30 second reload on a 200mm round penetration is sad to say the least and in my opinion off that its worthy if 6.3 due to that fact but thats a different discussion. Canon CAS is quite strong if left unchecked. Which means all you need to do is spot him first, then he's basically done for. sdkfz 123 panzerspahwagen ii luchs fast . They usually tend to be just as useless as those M22s too. @Loongsheepwell, except that you can just lolpen the entire front with APDS. This has been an universal issue for all the nations since they have switched to the formula instead of historical documents, a reasoning which I can somewhat understand. And that goes for anyone regardless of nation. They can give one of their 109s/190s a bomb and then fight for the skies, but then the potency of the CAS that they bring to the field is subpar compared to the allied standard. 4. East Germnay also has access to the BMP-2 as well. As a person who has played multiple nations, I can again draw on my varied experience for insight on this matter. Scriptures from many world religions, science facts, safety & reminder tips, cuisine, sports, books, art, music, movies, TV. I wouldn't mind more open maps, though I must admit I still prefer hard cover to range. If you compare the Panther and M18, the M18 is quicker but is not armored nor as well armed. Then yes, M18 would be toast. Arado B-2 with 3x 500kg bomb as light bomber. Now the GER 6.7 lineup is missing a proper medium to counter some of the russian meds. He usually has like 5 different options. If it's perfectly fine as a comparison, then why is CQC fighting the rulewhen GJ is designing maps,while we clearly can make it a more interesting battle if every nation can face their strengths and shortcomings on the battlefield. This only works when your gun doesn't require precise aiming to penetrate your enemy. The problem here is that Japan doesn't have a lot of players and thus meeting japanese aircraft is pretty rare in RB. This is why nobody takes anyone who believes in tygor syndrom seriously. 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. Yeah, how is that even an argument? Even I--a German player myself--am commonly hounded over this, despite presenting a great deal of strong testimony thats based on many years experienc. With this you will keep your RPM high and get moving fast. (small note, i forgot the T__ has cast armor, it's frontal protection is actually 190mm at it's weakest. Otherwise we can also assume incompetent Panther players who just drive on the highest hill and stand in the open hoping that noone sees them and try to snipe enemies. This by the way also the reason why you quite often see the SDKFZ 234, a BR 2,7 vehicle, in 6.7 matches. Nope, reversing back takes forever, turning as well and will expose your sides, running forward to flank doesn't work either. Allied CAS has way more firepower than Axis one. The real question would be if you can deny the enemy taking the capture point from long ranges, which would be a resounding no. another thing that hurts germany 5.3-6.7 to much its the fact that GAIJIN thinks that low armor = low br, thx to this we have tank like m41 / pt76 / m50 / t92 / ru-251 etc., tanks that can deal w/o problem other tanks like t54 but in game they are figthing vs tiger 1. Hell even the FV4202 has a strong enough turret to confidently bounce long 75s and russian guns. Are there plans to finally separate ww2 (and pre-ww2) vehicles from post ww2 (like vehicles made. Thats why you will often see lack of initiative and decisiveness on German teams. Thats why you will often see lack of initiative and decisiveness on German teams. Relative merit is in play here. I haven't shared your issues i go through a T series and it dies normally and I'm more prone to freak out if a IS-6 rolls over a hill than a T series. You can flank it and still fail to pen with many of the guns at this BR. Think a bit ahead. In that experience, I have found that German vehicles mobility is adequate and generally competitive with these peers--despite all of the derisive talk you hear otherwise. No, the good players, because we need to play with this.. other 90% of the other players, that only got enough braincells to press W. Just carry, its what I do. Thats because the Germans don't have more modern light tanks in the game. Even so, better reverse speed on competing tanks does not in itself put those competing tanks (like M18s), as they can have drawbacks of their own. That's good to hear, I know I did my part to live up to those stories. There are things the T series better and the game tends to play to those advantages mord than to the tiger 2s but the differences between the two aren't much trust me on that one. My general thoughts on what causes Germany to suffer: The Germans' main undoing are their teams--there's no doubt about it. As for the Bf 110G, it is superb--it's only fault is that it's ranked as a Tier II rather than a Tier III. Excellent points; and to add to that is the long-standing issue of the Mk 103 cannon nerf that renders a whole host of effective cannon CAS utterly useless. Once he has spotted you, you are basically dead. On the afternoon of 21 November 1995, Grant suffered a fatal heart attack while driving to his home at Eastbourne with his son Warren. - Panther armour is easier to use and still ok. No need to angle, just point the front towards the enemy. ", Road Cycling, Scale Modeling, RC Tank, Military History. Really? It is almost exactly the same as the normal Tiger II, about the same play time yet it has a 47% WR compared to 43%. An uptier will barely affect the performance of an M18. Well one or two not that much but a bit more and flying becomes more problematic. Yeah, i totally wonder why you never see people playing them, but I still see the same ol team comps of 90% tiger 2s. I've whacked Leopards with my SU-5-1 but didn't have much to do with the vehicles. Anything that doesn't fit your narrative: step forward progressively. Panthers has not too much problems in their brs. The ATGMs aren't common place but considering germany doesn't get SS.11s until 7.7 it does show the extreme technology advantage the brits have. Thread seems to highlight points some might see as a way to improve gameplay. You can do just as well with a vehicle that has different strengths if you use those strengths correctly. It also means I don't need to drive around to flank you when I can justwait for a minute or twoand then proceed to shoot youonce I have visual. Not enough apparently the M41 appears to be shrouded in mediocrity that is the M41. He just needs to find the right way to flank you. For Centurion Mk.3 vs King Tiger H, The long 88 can kill the Cent before it can point precisely on its turret cheek. According to this complaint, Germanys mobility is insufficient to be competitive in RB GFs, with the greatest concentration of this complaint being focused on the 5.X range. He travelled over doctor oz supplement ed Greece and Arabia, and wrote a history of the doctor for gods, in which . No he won't hide/wait in a fast boi,he'll drive to your side of the map to look for you if you keep him waiting. Well you know what they say, the turtle always wins. Just because there would be more open maps doesn't mean we can't have CQC maps. FInally we can do much more than to just get flanked. Just look at the Tiger 1H how many Heavy Tanks at 5.3 can roll up to 45 almost 50Km/h. As a seasoned German player, I can tell you their firepower is at least as valuable as the Allies' speed. Has 3 crew and carousel, so it doesn't fit survivability meta and it's armor can be penned by 9.0 premiums. Vehicles, I "like" how you start out this topic with some kind of meme-theme, that there's nothing to it more than it being perceived as "suffering!" Not sure why, maybe it's a new bug or there's a spall shield I'm unaware of, but it's really annoying. What about T95? while proclaiming yourself in some sort of 'neutral good' position. I agree that between 8.7 and 9.7 Soviets have overall bad mobility, but i strongly disagree that T80B, T80U and BMP3 have bad mobility. Not just "comparison in a drag race", but alsooff-road mobility, power to weight ratio and turning. An Panther however loses his main advantage of better armor. The T-80B has ok mobility for it's BR (~25HP/T vs ~27+ for other tanks), but still has terrible reverse of -10kph wheras other tanks can go -30kph or more in reverse. Still more enjoyable than japanese start off. In other words it's very hard to find a proper backup. It's scary and you die whichever you run into. He can just wait till you start to cap and go around you. The F-4F Phantom II is a rank VII German jet fighter with a battle rating of 11.0 (AB/RB/SB). Or this amazing times when you play the tractor simulator trying to get you slow vehicle to this surprising spot which takes you forever, and hoping that noone shoots or bombs you on the way there. Yes but this is should be fixed for once and for all. Any player should understand that, especially new players! I invite others to list other claims of alleged German suffering so that those can be talked about. (well until last update and the introduction of M41). Top tier meta is good survivability, mobility, and gun handling, as armor doesn't matter with laser rangefinders and high velocity APFSDS along with lots of CQB maps making weakspots easily hit. But how often do you see good teamplay in randombattles? The fast-paced and valiant opener marks a strong, excessive statement right at the beginning, because every detail fascinates: the riffing, the solos, the chorus, pick out whatever you want. - Panther is a medium tank and cheaper to spawn. This is a major drawback and makes this tank so special. 5. The turret armor isn't much. You can't aim when they shot in your direction. That's your personal preference. I agree though that the lines should be redone, but not only for Germany but for all the nations. do we not have a tank yet? I lately used my FW190 D13 with one 500kg bomb as Fighter/Ground Attacker. Join the Discord Here: https://discord.gg/cgctjTR5hjHope you all enjoy this video/short from an interesting moment in-game! And since most Panther drivers know that, they usually just camp. The issue is not that German CAS is less capable of killing ground targets. interactions? Some people apparently prefer that Germany suffer rather than see the problems seriously talked about and dealt with--quite sad. Maps in air battles are sometimes given to br.s that have no way of properly using them (I hear top jets get tiny maps sometimes) and low speed props get huge maps sometimes (even in jets some of the maps make no sense, why would I fly an Me262 for ten minutes to stress out about my 2 sec window to hit an a.i. is getting boosted taking them out requires specific loadouts and concentration, which makes the CAS player very susceptible for enemy fighters, this is further exacerbated by the poor balance among the nations at different br.s. If we only knew the do black people have bigger penis rate at which the penis size men earth how to make your dick bigger review porn hentai penis growth is cooling we might calculate back to this time with some assurance of certainty, always, however, on the assumption average penis size when not erect that the earth is simply a hot body cooling like any other hot body such, say, as a red . It's just that the slow/tall/heavy tanks are usually on the bad end with the current level design. Not meta. Germany suffers (and others too), balance, br, tanks, jets, etc. And if you talking about the swingfire it's not a good vehicle. Be always aware of this. Been consistent honestly. #warthunder #warthundermemes #warthunderfunny #warthunderclipsTwitch: Twitch.t. Also, you're very wrong about Tiger syndrome. Justifications for War and Peace in the Scriptures of the Abrahamic Religions. So if you fall for him turning the gun and you still shoot the breach rather than the side of the turret thats a player error and isn't much of a arguement. Are you serious? Getting ahead is stupidly hard. I'm also fine with the T30 at 6.7 since it has such a long reload, but the T34 really ought to be 7.0 just because of how ridiculous it is against 5.7s in a downtier. Their is a perfect blend of fast paced numbers (Warcurse, Escalation) and slower, more groove-oriented thrash in the vein of Pantera's Cowboys From Hell, in particular Destroy What Destroys You. Wouldn't you agree that having a small and fast vehicles helps immensely to flank? Everything about the HRE, NGC, GE, WR, GR, SP, FRG and GDR. It works wonders unless you have to make a regressive retreat. What do you expect? Especially when you get uptiered to 7.7. And if he turns it to the side literally shoot the huge side of the turret that will be exposed. If you haven't noticed I'm implying being one/two steps ahead. Those three qualities are what control the tank's ability. Maus at 7.0? 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. Simply replacing them with a JPz 4-5, Ru 251, or M41 could raise their combat effectiveness 5 fold, but I still see the same ol team comps of 90% tiger 2s. warrior412, February 10, 2020 in General & Upcoming, Germany has a p-47 just like the allies? All of these things are important, with at least one being exceptional for a vehicle to be any good generally. Theres was no reason to add them for almost every US tanks in War Thunder. The M18's like any vehicle that doesn't get shot. According to the complaint, Germany suffers terribly under the weight of uptiers. And as a you tube person showed in his video and based on the evidence presented its quite obviousEast Germany will carry Germanyand save top tier balance. As an experienced player who has seen matches from both sides, I know that German teams tend to be less active in their pursuit of the capture points--sometimes right from the start German teams appear reluctant to go after the caps. Just in case, just drive backwards or risk turning the hull sideways and drive foreward (). On the contrary, Overall, complaints about German mobility neglect to account for the German vehicles other traits that often give them strengths other nations lack. Yes, but just pointing out that "Japanese bias" has been used before. About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features Press Copyright Contact us Creators . What makes teams such an acute problem? Apds isn't guaranteed damage actually put rounds through things and have done no damage on many occasions. There are major gaps in all the TTs that need to be addressed. That's a big if there, an M18 still isn't fast enough to out run a gun so its unlikely for them to survive long enough to retreat out of an ambushand flank you, heck even half of them that do make it out get blown up latertrying to flank you as they may become careless with hatred. Even then you aren't going to see UK tanks in 100% of your matches. Having the Panther 2 in game used to alleviate this problem and give 6.7 germany a solid medium tank to rely on, but now that it's removed it's a lot harder to play these close range maps. I'd certainly replace the Hs 129B-2/MK 103 if the Bf 110G was a Tier III vehicle. But he still requires to go through your turret so mixing it up and not sitting is what's the best option to proceed at those ranges. The Me 410 B-6/R3 is considerably more competitive than people think. If you shoot the side of the turret its about 175mm thick but if you shoot the hull its about 77mm thick. No matter how well you argue or what evidence you cite, you will inevitably be attacked by the people who cling to beliefs of German victimhood if you speak out against it--the believers dont want to hear dissent--just know about that. T28 with 305mm of frontal armor at 6.3? People like to complain about the cause being UK 6.7, but tanks like the Panther II have almost double the games than any of the UK tanks. 25 best luchs images in 2020 panzer ii military. Is a panther really a good vehicle for flanking? And their armor won't save them. He will command the rules of engagement and the battleground not you. Second, almost every US tank has .50 cals for AA purposes. lol Germany (especially around the BR you're playing at) has literally some of the most insanely OP lineups in the game - packed with tanks / SPAA / CAS spam vehicles with mostly low spawn costs. And the you said the atgms you made it sound like they were common place. When it comes to the points I made about the armor, I have had my AMX-13 bounce off the side turret numerous times, it really is that thick. It's obvious which has the better hull where as its obvious who has the better turret. The Arado B-2 has a great flight model, very maneuverable and easy to pull up out of a dive attack. And Germany has long 88s also at 5.7. Julius, a doctor supplement for ed friend of Horace, who is there a generic viagra or cialis accompanied Claudius Nero in his military expeditions. This by the way also the reason why you quite often see the SDKFZ 234, a BR 2,7 vehicle, in 6.7 matches. I think it's important to call out that there are a lot of different aspects to mobility. While the M18 can potentially be used for flanking regardless of tier--this is true of any vehicle--it is also a vehicle that can be wiped out even by lowly 1.0s. In real life, German cats had a more advanced system/concept known as regenerative steering, this is vastly more energy efficient and especially useful for these heavy late wartanks, and other tanks after the war. Slow speed handling of the Panther is also very bad, making it a bad brawler in CQC situations where you most likely would have to turn with the traverse to get on target in that tank. (This topic will likely be flooded by people doing exactly this or otherwise trying to hijack the thread.). While an M18s speed might allow it to get to a point a few moments before a Panther would, the M18s lack of armor and less capable cannon burden it if something like a Panther arrives shortly thereafter. pzkpfw ii ausf l luchs 37mm war thunder official forum. Probably you should just Okha the last bomb into the target, cause rearming takes too long anyways. The T34 where as it has more penetration it has a longer reload and solid shot which recently seems to have suffered a reduced damage output off it round. Other nations have a lot of fast backups with good guns, like the []ASU 85. german 6.7 is actually really good against soviet 6.7. And here comes the issue with uptiers. Also, most capture points are arranged such to allow for substantial firing work into/out of them from such ranges. Or is it? (Petrol tanks under turret basket magicallyexplode when turret penned). The stock ammo misery for every leos and m48 etc. While it is true that many people, with all sorts of involvement in other trees, play Germany it is also true that many of the people who play the German tree only play the German tech tree. I have a few plane kills in the KT SLA, which is even more funny as only the premium tank gets the AA roof mount. Every time I play 5.7, I see a lot of Tiger I. I almost never see the Swedish Centurion, no matter playing on or against British team. I've said that I'm looking at things that are perceived as suffering but aren't in the interest of finding and isolating the true examples for sake of fixing these things. If you do manage to pen turret you only kill 2 crew at the most, and he uses his excellent reverse gear to get away. However it does not. Thus, links were forged between the crime of public nuisance and the tort of private nuisance at an early stage in the development of the common law. In an uptier when being met by a T54. that's it. Background: I am a guy who plays all nation with Germany being my single most played nation. Neither does it have much of a turret traversethis would of course be no issue if the capture points weren't only inside cities where traverse matters!). Fires, backs up to cover from return fire etc, flanks if need be. I'd love to hear an in depth explanation of why you think that. It would actually give Germany some nice, War Thunder map friendly brawling options, like T-34's, IS-2's, T-54's, as well as some lower BR MBT's with decent armour, like T-55's, T-72's etc. That being said I wanted to ask them to get answers, because for me it is important. buy panzer ii amp luchs the world war ii Call me when it has the bombs and rockets just like the allies. Doesn't fit good mobility meta. I am losing a little over half my team (if my team is made up of mainly germans, which it generally is, otherwise about a quarter leave) before the 3 minute . The allegation is that because the Germans Tigers and Panthers cannot keep pace with the Americans M18s, the Russians T-34-85s and other like vehicles that the Germans simply cannot compete with these vehicles or the teams that use them. This is a battle of patience and cunning. When I played my 6.0s, uptiers to 6.3 and 6.7 were common but things worked out well. And yes theoretically the bigger and slower tank could try the same tactic, just that it would take him much longer to react, he would be easiert to spot and aim at, and you would give the enemy more time to shoot at you when you cross open terrain. Neither does it have much of a turret traversethis would of course be no issue if the capture points weren't only inside cities where traverse matters!). The most obvious example of this is that a player can jump directly from the Panzer IIIs at 3.0 to the Tiger H1 at 5.3. Only if you let him, if you did the smart thing you will set the rules of engagement and battleground long before they even considered such a thing. Nobody likes uptiers and Germans are no exception--but theyre not suffering any more than anyone else. Step forward progressively, oh how I haven't seen that argument before. You can skip APCR because it won't do much. Both the american 76mm and the russian 85mm will penetrate that front plate if not correctly angled. they're glass cannons. I don't think the hull of the king tiger is worse, it's obviously better, I'm just saying it's not better by a huge margin. In Panther? The majority of the 7.92 German ammunition types go seemingly unused in the game, especially all the high velocity variants of the bullets. It takes about 0.5-1s to stop but experienced player can fire earlier - APHE just needs to hit center-mass of a Centurion to kill it. And the T30 which has a 30 second reload on a 200mm round penetration is sad to say the least and in my opinion off that its worthy if 6.3 due to that fact but thats a different discussion. Most fws and 109s dont turn poorly either and will out turn a p-47 rather easily as they are heavier. As the matter relates to teams' statuses and ticket bleed, the capture point's alignment once captured is ended from the moment it is captured until the moment that hold on it is broken or the game ends. Germany is being denied their AA roof mounted guns because "They would make no difference". Powered by Invision Community. 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. There's only one brit 6.7 with atgms, but theres like 5 total with stabs and apds, Also no, the long 88 does not go through T__ tanks with ease, you have to shoot for weakspots which is quite difficultif the enemy is moving or at long range. . Germany has some of the best CAS, the best SPAA, the best light tanks, and just the best overall line up at 6.7 yet they are generally performing in the range or sometimes below that of worse nations at the same BR despite facing the same threats such as France, Italy, and Japan. Meanwhile, a king tiger hull down has 185mm frontally(with no trolly double layered spots or crazy angles), 100mm on the sides and 80mm on the rear, and it's ammo is stored in the turret for an easy 1 shot. This is of course a burden if you're in a CQC situation where the APDS will easily pen your frontal armor. Most of the time they use their speed to cap the mid point rather than setting up a scouting position. Well suited for precision bombing, its 2 guaranteed kills. They die as soon as literally any heavy pulls up and just the purpose of giving the enemy free RP and SL. Denying that problem only makes it worse. Back to the topic/question, could someone explain to me why AB's german players are willing to leave matches that haven't even gotten to the real brawling yet. The blinding effect happens but its not as bad as your saying it is. Centurions have a 2-plane stabilizer that for some reason acts like it's from 2020, which lets you use hard cover or play behind a hill, only popping your turret out briefly to take easy shots. Those things are a really easy kill as long as you see them first. All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. The problem is that the faster tank has the advantage of initiative. All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. Or if the hull is exposed, anywhere of the hull. All in all, these things boil down to the sort of trade offs that are to be expected. Are king tigers unplayable? Slow speed handling of the Panther is also very bad, making it a bad brawler in CQC situations where you most likely would have to turn with the traverse to get on target in that tank. I would just shoot breech, then driver/engine, and then if whatever I was shooting was still alive I would just wittle down it's last crew with the excellent reload and lolpen APDS. LORRAINE 40T AT 7.7?? I haven't had a single game with Germany either on the same or enemy team without there being a single puma. 2. The allegation is that because the Germans Tigers and Panthers cannot keep pace with the Americans M18s, the Russians T-34-85s and other like vehicles that the Germans simply cannot compete with these vehicles or the teams that use them. Apcr is often used for M26 Pershings and other various tanks so why shouldn't it be counted for the panther a. That being said I wanted to ask them to get answers, because for me it is important. In general, German win rates are in the 40s even at their lowest and this means that they're near the balancing point (the 45-55% range, being within +/-5 of 50%). It allows for the a pilot to manually set several engine-related perks on the aircraft while on the fly, with the most important being the radiator and the fuel mixture. He can get to cap first and setup an ambush. If you turn it to the side you just shoot the huge side of the turret. Neither Soviets, Brits nor Ger vehicles have them, beside some prems or some advanced sub-types. Your best chance would be using Japan yourself, Ah I see. But only at long range. Also the air tech tree actually is borderline OP too. Noone does the same with panthers. War Thunder trading. The M18's like any vehicle that doesn't get shot. I wouldn't say its off topic at all, map friendly brawling options fallsintocategory's the suffering community thinks Germany needs and in the upper low MBT department East Germany is suffering as the tanks are missingaltogetherlike some other nationsvehiclesand that right there is the very definition of "Suffering". 0 capable AA's, meanwhile germany is literally spoilt with choice. If an M18 is careening down a street and a Panther materializes at the end of it and takes a shotit's not going to be a good day for the M18. Meanwhile, what is expected of the high skill T__ player? And im asking how your angling it. What plans do you have to try and tackle this issue? When you have 2 identical vehicles performing differently by a noticeable margin with the only variable being the people who play them, it really makes you wonder. Of course the thick armor and good gun can be an advantage. The ATGMs aren't common place but considering germany doesn't get SS.11s until 7.7 it does show the extreme technology advantage the brits have. When I play american tanks I always use the .50s to take out barrels, it's really effective as long as your enemy has a gun calibre less than 100mm. The Germany newbies will complain that their chosen tank sucks and the Germany veterans are in their meta premiums taking out entire enemy teams. You have the turret, lfp, and anywhere on the hull as long as you don't hit the tracks. But you can reach it fast enough as it'll be on your quarter of the map, the faster tank is the one whoneeds the half map. The T29 has a better gun and marginally better mobility, as well as better mantlet armor. Armor profile is meh also and they are abit slower than the tiger 2s surprisingly. I like Wallonia, I hate Kursk. He can easily continue flank and pen King Tigers from the side. Also since ground ai. Making it for the M18 much easier to make assumptions about the position of the Panther than vice versa. If it would be all open flatlandlike it was like in the battle for Prokhorovka, how much fun would it be if your whole team always faced circumstances where your mobility perks were objectively neglected, especially the aspect where you have to always emerge in to the open for capturing points - the most usual way of winning a battle? The most frustrating thing about these engagements is how random it feels to play against a T__. While the M18 can reverse much quicker, it also lurches about far more. Sohow exactly do I do that? that I won't be able to catch if I miss (only to in best case scenario get about 2k sl from the kill)? 1. I've heard that damage output might be linked to vehicle tiers and the Puma is just rank 2. There is no tech tree 6.7 medium tank now, what are you supposed to play if not a Tiger II? Its not like I am proposing to ram the enemy. Only salt and betrayal.Thanks for watching!Subscribe for decent content next time (hopefully). Thank you for your attention and have a nice day! APDS is guaranteed damage, just aim for specific crew one at a time or shoot for modules. It's not a perfect strategy as it weakens the cheeks, but I've had a lot of smart american players turn their turret at the last second for an easy bounce. You have to be reactive rather than proactive and take advantage of mistakes made by allied players. He can cap first and when wait till in an ambush till you start to decap. 2. I just read this post and simply had to react because you draw all the wrong conclusions.And BTW i also played all three major nations. 6. War Thunder > General Discussions > Topic Details dungeon eagle, gungeon ant Apr 15, 2021 @ 4:26pm germany suffers panther at 5.7 (it should be higher) Last edited by dungeon eagle, gungeon ant ; Apr 15, 2021 @ 4:52pm The author of this topic has marked a post as the answer to their question. If you spot him first and don't manage to kill him with the first spot you are dead even if he can't pen you from the front. While an M18s speed might allow it to get to a point a few moments before a Panther would, the M18s lack of armor and less capable cannon burden it if something like a Panther arrives shortly thereafter. True, I had the T-44 in mind when I made that post though. With a few more wins per hundred matches, they'd be. Uptiers are a pervasive issue for every nation at one point or another, with the severity of this problem varying widely. Because heat rounds don't care about armor. Internal mods of higher tier vehicles are more durable, sometimes not even the engine starts burning if you shot a shell into the back of an rank 4 enemy. By and large, Germanys main strength is firepower with armor being the secondary asset. So in short up until br 6.7 theres nothing much. By Which is situational and works only on several maps. If by any standards the Panther is far more stable due to its suspension, what does that make the Sherman series, especially in a CQC situation where the medium low speeds are to its' advantage? The argument is that a more mobile tank has the better "tools", traits call it however you want to exploit this knowledge. A Do335 can do a lot of damage when left alone, but stands utterly no chance of outflying a P-47. Now, lets address the imagined problems of Germany so that the real ones can be identified and addressed! What about T95? Mobility is the aspect that most German vehicles are less focused on than their peers, but this is made up for by the Germans better firepower/armor than their peers. And just to be fair, the introduction of M41 to the German tree has improved the situation dramatically. Come on, you know that your arguments is purely theoretical and doesn't work on most WT maps. You cant carry against so many players. Incorrect in so many levels. Eh, you can get the same effect with having a slow vehicle suddenly appear where no one expects it at a particular time, it also brings a more shock and awe effect as its victims try to fathem what they are looking at and how it gotthere, thegood times to be had Oh and by the way, many people do drive BT5s and M18 on high tiers because they are freaking fast and their guns can pen flanks of more modern tanks. If he sees that you do dare to cap he will just rush back because he has the speed. Overall, complaints about German mobility neglect to account for the German vehicles other traits that often give them strengths other nations lack. Nope you leave them to their own meansor use them as bait if you want to be a jerk about it. 3. Nope but you will have your own luxuries instead, the fact that you knew what he was trying to pull off and decided toplan his demise in advanceand he won't have aclue until its too late. Considering Im an experienced player who has done quite well in some Germany tanks that have been thoroughly derided, Id lean towards saying youre justwrong. This is a subreddit for War Thunder, a cross platform vehicular combat MMO developed by Gaijin Entertainment for Microsoft Windows, macOS, Linux, PlayStation 4, PlayStation 5, Xbox One and Xbox Series X|S. The merits of ground vehicles rely on the triad--armor, firepower and mobility. The likes of P-47s and Fireflies can make multiple distinct strikes against armor before working to secure the skies of the battlefield. However there comes the real germany suffers thing. Isn't it also true that many of the people who play the soviet tree only play the soviet tree? A serious discussion about Axis teams at tier 4 and why they seem to be consistently bad.PLAY WAR THUNDER FOR FREE AND GET 50GE FOR FREE: http://warthunder.. I am obviously a bit salty though, I've played basically every nation in WT except the USA so maybe I'm a bit biased. There's also the issue of the T__ having 6 crew all very well spaced apart, so if by some miracle I get lucky enough to do damage the T__ will just reverse away at high speed and repair. at one point or another, with the severity of this problem varying widely. Like bombing out caps or sniper ridges. Example, an M18 is freaking fast compared to a Panther or any other German Tank of that tier. If they're not interested in moving the follow up question should be why they don't when in German vehicles. And i find that the 88 one shots the T series rather easily now through the turret. SIKE German mains am I right? Weaponry, Does Germany suffer and from what? Two world wars and two pandemics are just a few of the many historic events witnessed by Sister Andre during her 118 years. . All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. Aside from the pre-nerf Horton flying wing, Germany really hasn't had a plane that could both match allied CAS's ability to make multiple strikes against hard targets and simultaneously hold its own in securing the airspace. The personal well being of the person who capped it means little to the team if they have succeeded--that part of their reason for being is fulfilled by then. Charlotte Elizabeth, Principalities and powers in heavenly places, 1842. It's very weak side armor also means that it's close to pointless to angle it, compared to the Tiger I. Up until only pz 2 is miserable a bit compare to m3 or bt7 etc. FW 190's can go for air targets and ordnance is sufficient to bomb a tank and strafe lights. With the (by my understanding) more recent ai changes in air realistic battles the ai is now invulerable to most guns, this also led to a lack of engagement in the maps that were made to adapt the changes, are there plans to change the current player-a.i. Same procedure as with Panthers. In a standard WT match, do I try to command people using the chat to go to certain positions which they won't do? 7. The only situation where the Panther would in a clear advantage is a plain map where the M18 has no chance for covered approach. And the T series has a thick turret but the tiger 2 has a better hull. Alternatively they could bring in an ground attacker with a better CAS loadout, but in turn be utterly outmatched when it comes to fighting for control of the sky. At least 5 times! If a person is to look at other trees and seek to understand the problems they face, far worse MM can be found. And it is this knowledge that will the panther driver often stop from advancing beyond certain points on the map, because he thinks: " There is probably a M18 on the enemy team and based on my experience and knowledge of the map I know that beyong this point there is a high chance that the M18 is somewhere on the edge of the map behind a hill and is waiting till I leave my cover. Useful on certain maps. Has 7.1 second reload (slower than 6.7s of the 105 L7 guns), -6 gun depression, and only 17.3 deg/sec traverse, so it doesn't fit gun handling meta. With things as they are with just a little more zeal in pursuing the objectives, Germany would do just fine. If you check old war images of M4 tanks, you will see that not all of them had turret mounted .50cals. Germany should rely on armor but more often than not it is countered with vehicles that can lol pen. And yes theoretically the bigger and slower tank could try the same tactic, just that it would take him much longer to react, he would be easiert to spot and aim at, and you would give the enemy more time to shoot at you when you cross open terrain. 3 . Absolutely you're right on that point, but let's turn the tables here for some perspective. Those things can shrug off even the 10.5 in close combat. I will keep the scope of this topic to relate to BRs 1.0 to 7.0 in RB, with the primary emphasis being on 4.X-5.X. Germany has a P-47 that lacks bombs and rockets, which means it is not burdened by those as distractions or dead weight in the case of opposing fighters. It's as hard to shoot a the turret of a tiger 2 as it is to shoot a T series turret. MidCii; Jul . I've whacked Leopards with my SU-5-1 but didn't have much to do with the vehicles. Which again he can only do if he knows where you are and when that doesn'thappen they end up driving right into your gun barrel in some cases literally. Many German players will often hang back and camp (which can be good, if done in moderation--Germany gets above average exchange rates this way) but critically, problems arise when these players never do move up. But be aware of your week side armour. The Panther, by contrast, is reasonably quick for a medium tank, retains decent armor and is vastly better armed. Other nations have a lot of fast backups with good guns, like the M18, T114, M50, ASU 85, Falcon etc. With enough skill and fine tuning, you could push your plane past it's normal usage by other players who do not use MEC. Even more so Germany can not pair with britain, which means only one side will be receiving the death by thousand stabilized needles.USA brings a ton of HEATFS that chew through the Tiger II UPF. Tried to flank with the Tortoise? If anything i insist you grind out to the T34 play about 100 games you'll tend to find that the two are rather close to compare. I've been playing the Su-100P lately (pretty underrated, but could still use a lower BR to match the regular Su-100) and it baffles me how many pumas I am seeing from 5.7-7.7. Ammo rack closest in the hull so you'd just one bang it. The reverse speeds of all of these tanks mean you must step forward progressively, rather than figuring on advancing and reversing on a whim with them as you would with others. Yes, but we should be discussing balance based on tanks that are actually in the tech tree. By and large, Germanys main strength is firepower with armor being the secondary asset. The armor is nowhere never Tiger II H level. From mud, through blood, to the green fields beyond. Still a lot more intuitive. And the stock ammo of the german M48A2C is the same as the US/Chinese M48A1, but somehow the US/Chinese M48A1 is at a higher BR. France truly suffers, the major trees offer too much, France needs more! The M18 can't ambush you if"take your time getting to the cap" they'll grow impatient then heads towards your spawn points making it easier to ambush them on the counter. And here comes the issue with uptiers. but in a game where you play the same maps over and over again and know all the ways hideouts. the Jumboturret. I bought the premium centurion to grind britain and rarely had this problem. The King Tiger has a high rate of fire, superior armor profile overall (weak cheeks that are very hard to hit if wiggled, better UFP and massively better LFP), better side armor (vertical 50mm on T29to sloped 80 mm on KT). I wrote Panther II and T-44-100, which are the medium tanks of BR 6.7-7.0, actual competitors to the Cent 3. Ferdi is 7.0 and I did managed 17 kills a match. But if you miss me or I see that you are aiming at me, then it is easy for me to get in cover. Recently I got the MiG 19s and its just been soul draining bad because off missile spamming and almost constant uptears, so I try to go back to the MiG 15 and G.91 but they experience a similar problem. Oftentimes, if left unharnessed, the cannon birds have better potential to destroy multiple targets. panzer ii ausf l luchs mit bildern panzer panzer ii. But to the long 88 you can kill them rather easily. Depends on the BR really. Despite the complaints about Germany's WRs, they're not bad really. Pretty unfair that almost all US tanks have those AA HMGs. When I review the player profiles of those in the matches I am in, I commonly find such single nation players are the ones who struggle the most. Sidenote: chuckling at all the silly "confused" reactions haters are giving. The Ju-288C is breaking the super prop part of the game, what solutions are likely to be tried to solve this issue (I understand if you can't really answer this one)? Walter Dorn. Personally, I'd rather be able to harm an enemy frontally than a bit faster than him but forced to flank. 1 Description 2 General info 2.1 Survivability and armour 2.2 Mobility 2.3 Modifications and economy 3 Armaments 3.1 Main armament 3.1.1 Ammunition 3.1.2 Ammo racks 3.2 Machine guns 4 Usage in battles 4.1 Pros and cons 5 History 6 Media 7 See also 8 External links Description While light vehicles can rush about in cities, they're balanced in the cities by the same hard cover they benefit from. 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