It will be one of the rods in what I am calling my Basic Reference Taper set. 40 0.184 .248@15 Dickerson rods have the charm of being different (and scarce). I would describe the rod action as very powerful, as you would expect from most Dickersons. (Lew) Parks. One of my favorite rods is a linear taper with a "slope" of .290/100". (Will McMurrey), Just very briefly, a Castle Connell taper is a good example, where you have a curious reverse taper in the upper part of the lower half of the rod. (Mark Dyba), Okay, to continue the discussion, what are they, and why? Has anyone cast both 1949 and 1951 versions of the Dickerson 8013 as described in Howell's book? (Reed Guice), Dickerson used the ferrule sizes in the rod to denote both the ferrule and the number of pieces in the rod. 8 wt 0.0830 Dickerson 801611-D - 8ft 3pc 7wt Posted by Jeremy Gray, Aug 30, 2000. BTW, Paul, different strokes for different folks. To my way of looking at this taper, its definitely an 8 wt. (Will McMurrey). 0.168 There are many ways to skin this cat. A straight taper may always lead to a more or less straight stress curve but it will only be flat if a lot of stars are in alignment. 90 0.329 All were very powerful eight weight rods with most of the action in the upper half. One of our most recognizable rod models with a deep flamed color and crisper action. It is quite different that the Garrison math method. All Dickerson copies include Dickerson aesthetics, blued ferrules & an agate stripping guide. 2 piece. Hardy Fly Fishing Rod Trout Fishing Rods & Poles 8 Guides, Hardy Fly Reel Trout Fishing Reels, Hardy Trout Fishing Rods & Poles, $ 1950us w/two tips, DICKERSON 7012 - 7' 2/2 - 4wt- honey colored - medium action, wonderful 4wt$ 1950us w/two tips. Dickerson 7012 (1954) from "the Lovely Reed". I have never seen an actual inch by inch measure and measure for ferrules listed that I felt was more reliable than this. I have not tried it with an 8 weight but I will as soon as I get back from Texas, ya'll. Must have been a real thrill to cast Banjos' rod. 765: 7'6" 2/2 5 wt. Only lost 1/2 inch in rod length. by oldfishbrain 06/19/16 10:39, Post If you caught my post to Robin, you will have read the requirements for describing a SC, as derived by Mr. Everett Garrison in his book. (Jerry Foster). Interesting thoughts on line weight and the first 20", I will have to roll that one around in my head for awhile. ever wonder why all those 10 1/2/64 Heddons broke at the female ferrule? 0.206 Yes, there are specific applications for a 7'6" 5wt here in Michigan. by dkrismer 06/12/16 20:36, Post Pickard is the Dickerson rod maker these days. But I imagine that high output builders didn't have every rod turn out the same for whatever reason. (Larry Swearingen). Good question and I will tell you as soon as I finish my 5wt SLT. Listed as 7 wt but that seems kinda heavy? If you want to see the justification for compound tapers look at the design of the Eiffel tower or any electricity pylon. If so, which would work best as an all-around rod for lakes/ponds and steelhead/salmon? 50 0.213 40 .200 under grip 0.168 I'm not sure why you don't like Garrison, nor his tapers, but you can have your own opinions as can everyone else. The point here being, if we can define areas along the straight line or linier taper. 0.232 I would agree that one system is not all encompassing and I agree with the selection of evaluating criteria you outlined. There are two Perfectionists on Hexrod. It's a 7 wt too but being a little shorter is easier on the arm and shoulder due to the shorter lever arm length. Dickerson 8015 Guide Model Fly Rod 8' 2/2 #6/7, Dickerson Model 8014 Bamboo Fly Rod 8' 2/3 #6, Dickerson Model 8013 Bamboo Fly Rod 8' 2/2 #5, Lyle Dickerson Model 8014 Fly Rod 8' 2/2 #5/6, Dickerson 761510 RB (Ray Bergman) Fly Rod 7'6" 3/2 #5, Lyle Dickerson Model 9016 Bamboo Rod 9' 2/2, Lyle Dickerson Model 861711-D Bamboo Rod 8'6" 3/2 #6, Lyle Dickerson Model 8013 Bamboo Rod 8' 2/2 #5, Lyle Dickerson Model 861711-D Bamboo Rod 8'6" 3/2 #5/6, Lyle Dickerson Model 901812-C Bamboo Rod 9' 3/2 #7, Lyle Dickerson Model 6611 Bamboo Rod 6'6" 2/2 #3/4, Lyle Dickerson Model 7613 Hollow Bamboo Rod 7'6" 2/2 #4/5, Lyle Dickerson Model 661510 Bamboo Rod 6'6" 3/2 #4, Lyle Dickerson Model 8014 Bamboo Rod 8' 2/2 #6, Lyle Dickerson Model 8014 Guide Bamboo Rod 8' 2/2 #6, Lyle Dickerson Model 801510 Bamboo Rod 8' 3/2 #5, Lyle Dickerson Model 7612 Bamboo Rod 7'6" 2/2 #4, Lyle Dickerson Model 761510 Bamboo Rod 7'6" 3/2 #5, Lyle Dickerson Model 9016 Bamboo Rod 9' 2/3, Lyle Dickerson Model 9015 Bamboo Rod 9' 2/2 #5/6, Lyle Dickerson Model 7012 Bamboo Rod 7' 2/2, Lyle Dickerson Model 861711 Special Bamboo Rod 8'6" 3/2 #6, Lyle Dickerson Model 801610 Bamboo Rod 8' 3/2 #5, Lyle Dickerson Model 8615 Special Bamboo Rod 8'6" 2/2 #5/6, Lyle Dickerson Model 961913 Bamboo Rod 9'6" 3/2 #7. For each size ferrule there is a specific range of dimensions that will fit inside each size. .350@40 (four piece) carbon fiber fly rod blank (NOW IN A GLOSSY DARK GREEN) $70.00 9' 6" 5wt. This board is for discussing the collecting of bamboo fly rods, both classic and modern. "God made dogs to steal our hearts and they do.". Springcreek, the 8013 you have listed. (Gordon Koppin), If I might ask: Which Perfectionist taper do you favor? Used but very good serviceable condition. 0.102 Look at a graph of the rod dimensions. (Gary Nicholson), The chap is obviously of unsound mind as the Perfectionist is IMHO one of the all time worst taper rods out there. The rod in question has a test curve of 4 ozs, by the way. Consider this, the aspect of looking at tapers as deviations from straight lines is most valid when you are designing from numbers and not from stress or deflection. I love the 7612 Taper. (Peter Jones), If you "Put some cane back" in the bottom eighteen inches or so of the top joint you will have removed most of my objections. It is my belief that there are only seven truly different tapers available as a base to design rods from. Ephemera, empherma and Ephemerella.. Photos, paintings, written stories and talents. I have modified these tapers to adjust them for what I think is a more modern feel. ), Then as it was, then again it will be. (Robin Haywood), I find this a very interesting. 0.153 70 0.271 The butt dimension at the ferrule is too large to fit in a 13/64. that'd be super! Consider this one if your maker plans on using Super Z ferrules. To all of them and their contemporaries we are grateful . 5 0.088 112541 (Mark Wendt). I deducted .005 for the varnish. All of which indicates to me that there is not one 'correct' straight line taper. $239.00 + $24.95 shipping (2) Vintage HEDDON PAL Casting Rods - #6277 Wormer 5'6"+ #6273 Musky Special 5' . I assume that he extrapolated those measurements. I get tired of hearing that kind of comment. Regarding Chris Bogart's Dickerson. (Steve Weiss). That's not a lot to ask is it? I like Paynes too! 0.153 (Larry Swearingen), Sorry about the double question, original question appeared lost in cyberspace. Obviously this has to be judicious, as there comes a point where the taper tends more towards an adjacent standard line weight. 45 .216 .375 I own one of his 7612s and it's a wonderful rod. So the data exists both ways in the spreadsheet. anyway that's how I do it. I brought my recently acquired 861711D to Luray, Virginia to show/share with Chris at his rod shop open house some years ago. The line was a Scientific Angler's WF7 in their XXD (distance) format. 42 .194 .066 (Max Satoh), Yep, the drop at the ferrule is .014 which should call for the use of a step down. (Todd Talsma), I had rather hoped that I might finesse out of someone just what these specific requirements might be. (Robin Haywood), Is 8'4" a bit long for a 4 wt.? 0.205 As long as a maker includes the correct ferrule drop, Dickerson tapers are no more difficult to make than most others. I'm satisfied with my bamboo fly rod, even though the female metal Ferrule opening was a little big and the male ferrule on the second section would slip out after a few cast. 0.174 I've fished mine from a drift boat on the Green river and had great success. CSE made the ferrule for me. Dave Norling, Rush River Rods, makes a stepdown 13/12 ferrule, the only size stepdown that he offers , that works very well for this taper. (Robin Haywood). 85 0.296 138357 The other issue is mandrels and they just don't come in 1/128 sizes. Remember that respect and civility is the goal of this board. Its definitely a bigger water rod that the 7613. Taxes and shipping calculated at checkout, Browse our bamboo fly rods in stock and available now, Browse our collection of reels in stock and available now. Harry Boyd ----------- Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com maker@canerods.com Aransas.clarks Guide Posts: 301 In fact, I had great trouble casting the bloody thing. Very similar to the 8013 action ( my favorite rod ) but in the 4w class, mission accomplished. 50% due upon order placement; balance due upon completion. I would argue that the variances are due to machine error, rather than deliberate (consider that you are tapering the strips by running them thru a glorified router, excuse me milling machine, using a worn wooden pattern board running over metal rollers, to determine the taper. 60 0.242 They are very nice 5 weights ( IMHO it is THE 8 5 wt). 0.275 55 0.2275 CSE makes and sells this kind of "step-down" ferrule, from tubing, as Dickerson did. It sounds very interesting. The butts are just not stiff enough, although, in some, the tips are quite satisfactory. The last page shows our interpolated numbers, on 5 inch stations, with varnish already subtracted, using both the Howell method (measure stations from the butt up) or the "classic" method (measure stations from the tip down.) 95 0.3435 (Tom Bowden). 55 0.217 145405 Thanks. All through this process you must be aware of the stress curves as well, you don't want to make changes that will cause a rod to fail. (Robin Haywood). One from the 1950s, one from the 1970s, and Russ Gooding's Golden Witch version. For example, the 8013 taper I use is .202 at the ferrule end of the tip, and .212 at the ferrule end of the butt. (Greg Reeves), Something ain't quite right there. If you look at the attached graph you will see that my Compensated Straight Line Taper does indeed have a Straight Horizontal Stress Curve at 20 feet of line outside the tiptop. Pezon/Michel. $95.00 The Garrison tip would be .078, B-9 tip would be .059, and a fast .018/5" drop a tip of .035. If you want to make one as a sort of standard then try a rate of taper of 13.5 thousandths per station, it gives a Gould rating of 270 which is a useful point about which to have a conversation with yourself about what you think is medium fast and what you think is fast. Very Good condition. I sold one to a co-worker who is a streamer guy and he fishes it with a full sinking 5 wt line and is happy with it. 65 0.2565 by bluesjay 06/19/16 13:59, Post Can do a little better some days, but not always. If you want to adjust for a different varnish assumption, or if you want to interpolate differently, then our actual measurements are there for you (or anyone, of course) to do so. Jim P. you have some great choices there. I have made several and all have been well received. A Lyle Dickerson model 8014 bamboo fly rod, 8', 2-piece, 3-tip, and built for a #6 line. 30 0.155 15 .128 .274 0.111 There are several different specs for this taper out there, three of which I use. I recently sold a rod to a customer blind on the phone. This in itself is a very interesting exercise. All Rights Reserved. Take a virtual tour of our terminal and view our campus map. There are some differences between their tapers and line sizes, however they are all somewhat medium fast. You simply have to then adjust the rate of change of the taper - the rise. The thickness of varnish of course was just our guess. Pt 0 is the butt side of the strips. Part of the midwest cadre of noted builders, he built rods from the 1930's onward and was especially known for his fast two-piece rods. Determine the effect of adding or subtracting material as to what effect it will have on rod action, we can design rods for a specific purpose. I've mostly used it for bass. (John Channer), Well, the #13 Payne ferrules that I've mic'd had a female ferrule internal diameter of .203" and the step-down internal diameter of .1875". 0 0.072 - I own a Thramer 6611 and 7012 HB tapers, both with Thramer cosmetics and they are both awesome rods. But all right is not a euphemism for excellent. Line Size Tip Size 0.178 If you know something different about Dickerson's typical varnsh coat, make the appropriate adjustment. You bring up a question I have been trying to work through for some time. Consider one or the other of these two if your rod maker intends to fit the rod with step down ferrules, since there is a .010" step down across the ferrule stations. The Dickerson 7612 taper a smooth medium action 4 wt that is 7 1/2 long in a 2pc. You may, or may not, as a rod designer, wish to achieve either, but probably not both! John's the guy. Spurred into rodmakingby losing his job in the great depression, Lyle Dickerson would go on tobecome one of the masters of the craft. I think I can reply for Dennis, as I was one of the guys who measured those rods. The swell starts at the 80" mark which will be under the cork assuming I have a grip and an insert roughly 10" in length. John P. has the Original Dickerson 7612 taper, a very rare rod but John understandably will not share the taper. Should be a very nice rod, good Taper. 0.350 Don't you find short rods a problem on those splendid Yorkshire chalk streams? Welcome to the Taper Archives; The data on this page reflects the work of generations of dedicated rodmakers. The trouble is, really, that I know there are people out there who really do understand taper design, it's getting them to talk to us about it thats the problem. Assuming this to be thus you have made adjustments so small that they are mostly below normal error, and if we allow a factor for variation in natural materials then the exercise becomes entirely futile except as an exercise in applied physics! It does handle a 7 very well too. They will not be using straight tapers, I'm afraid. I'm just curious if you have a procedure to do this compensation on the taper itself or if you do this by stress calculation methods? A taper is a fishing rod term that defines the rod length, optimal line weight, and rod flex action. Stress curves are the only tool I have seen that give you a visual image of exactly what you have changed and the consequences of that action. First, no one casts the same. Rods also tend to have varying sweet spots in terms of when the amount of line out feel just right. 20 0.131 154180 That's like saying that only the 49ers could find gold. (Bret Reiter), I call this one a seven too. If you are looking for a Dickerson rod or have one that you would like to sell please contact us. (Al Baldauski). Still looking for a guide to hire for a striper trip to the Bay. However, a straight line taper will create a rod in which the angle of deflection will increase from the butt to the tip at linear (constant)rate. 1 2 3 For example a 13 was really a 13.5? by canerodscom 05/09/09 02:32, Post (Will Price). This rod has some meat in the butt section and seems to mend a fair bit of line with ease. by avyoung 06/17/16 04:49, Post Post Made 2 of the heavier one. On Corrib I used an 8'8''#4 nearly all the time, in fact I designed it for the job. That's not how they're made, see my previous post, or get a set of old time Leonard, Payne, Dickerson or anyone else's, other than cheep H-I or Montague's which had a necked down female, and measure them, the bamboo opening on both kinds of ferrules is the same on the male as it is on the female. This taper, starting with a .068 tip dimension, makes a great middle distance 8' WF6 or 7-1/2' 5wt. If you are building in the drop at the ferule that Dickerson used, you will usually end up using a size larger ferrule than you'd normally think. Rod making, restoration, repairs and discussion on those related topics concerning bamboo rods. There seems to be a misunderstanding about the results this yields. Experience the difference of a Mystic Fly Rod on your next expedition. Gillum Rods. The varnish is in good condition. by avyoung 06/12/16 21:25, Post I'm not familiar with Tom Fulk's true arc taper. Just like the makers of Ping golf clubs, who ban their retailers from selling on the internet, I do not see how it is possible to make a rod for someone without the presence of that person for a considerable time on a casting court. He was known for using only one or two strips from a culm, a time-consuming and expensive way to build rods. Tell me about it please. If you look at the individual changes every five inches, no they are not always .014, but the mean and mode are .014". But if you really like Dickerson tapers (i sure do) then getting a good maker to whip up his version of that taper while using his personal cosmetics would be my first choice. 0.178 Whether you're picking out your very first fly-fishing rod or coming in for a new modern fly reel after years out on the water, Sportsman's Warehouse can supply you with the very best fly-fishing equipment. I just read this to myself and it's obviously as clear as mud! (Steve Weiss), Good idea, Steven, but you would have get in line behind me and one of my Garrisons. (Gary Nicholson), I think most rodmakers wouldn't build a rod to sell that they didn't like, but would make one for a customer that they wouldn't use themselves, I know I have. No question my friend John Pickard is the way to go for a Dickerson reproduction. CFRF Tapers Tapers from Classic Fly Rod Forum The links below are to "classic" tapers posted to the Classic Fly Rod Forum (http://classicflyrodforum.com) in the Taper Exchange subforum. You can build this rod and have a neutral action rod (my term). He took the first step to improving them, inadvertently, you say, by fining down the tips. We are typically roll casting about five yards of line at very small fish, so all things can be subjugate to that. (Harry Boyd), In Dickerson-speak, does a 7613 have a 14 on the butt to 13 on the tip or a 13 on the butt to 12 on the tip stepdown? .288@30 the all-around trout rod out here in the Western US. if you were to use this type of ferrule, you might choose one that has a 13/64ths opening on the top, and a 14/64ths opening on the bottom. (Frank Stetzer, Hexrod, Taper Archive, Rodmakers Archive), I'm grateful to you for that point because a recent post referred to straight taper Garrisons and I wonder if he meant straight stress "curves". A 2pc rod is much less vulnerable to breakage when fitted that way than a 3pc tip ferrule. (Bob Norwood). The fact that a rod has a straight taper does not tell us if the stress curve is flat or slopes up or down. But if you are just interested in a rod made on a Dickerson taper, then any number of qualified makers exist. Dickerson Rods. Forgot to mention before, Rich Jezioro is taking a set of 11-12/64 ferrules to Grayling for the silent auction for me, so if anybody's interested you can see them there if you're attending. 0.214 (Matthew French), Different rods, the 8014 is a true 6wt, the 8014G (G stands for guide) is a heavier rod, a point and shoot, no false cast, lay out a ton of line type rod. My first few 8013's have 13/64 ferrules and one of them broke off INSIDE of the ferrule. Parabolic is a marketing term and thus entirely meaningless in discussions on rod design. (Jerry Foster). He has some of the original taper ledgers from Dickerson's shop and can clone a rod as well as anyone. Interests: Building bamboo fly rods (occasionally), fly fishing for trout. But you also have the opportunity to add or remove material any ware alone the length of that rod and doing so will have an taper specific effect on the casting/fishing characteristics of the rod. 15 0.115 163502 . I will add my 2 cents. Unless that is what you are trying to achieve. The '51 is a bit softer. I thought it was in there, but I didn't have the link, and the CD I got from Lowell is at home. When things are stated incorrectly, many of the newer makers on the list can get very confused. The swell should start in front of the cork, at least 3" to 5". Casting range allows for some delicacy up close and personal, to the times that you want to reach out and touch someone a bit further away. 0.138 As this was my favorite rod, much foul language followed. (Mark Wendt), Thanks Dennis! The ID of the female ferrule where it accepts the male slide is .187", or 12/64. (Robin Haywood). I hope this is for step down ferrule. 0.278 I just put stepdown ferrules on my first rod, an 8014 Dickerson. On the other hand, Dickerson was designing rods (most likely) for Michigan waters. In the local streams we suffer the length to enable some sort of roll cast, but use #4 or #3 lines. This board is for discussing the repair and restoration of bamboo fly rods, makers discussion and construction techniques relating to same. Dickerson was a self-taught rodmaker who designed his own rod-milling and planing equipment. Dickerson Rods Notes On Rods and Models Rod Features Rod Bags & Tubes Rod Markings and Script Buyer/Collector Beware Dickerson Articles About The Model Profiles Dickerson 761510 Dickerson 8014 Guide The Tom Clark Collection Anecdotes & Unseen Photos Dickerson Guide Series The Earliest Dickerson What Are The Chances? They did not understand that a slow taper pole will bend near the point of grip under stress, whereas a fast taper will bend increasingly towards the tip as the rate of taper increases. 2023 Spinoza Rod Company. They were severely inhibited by several difficulties. My intention is not to criticize you, but to try to reveal the "big picture" when looking at tapers and stress curves. I won't know the difference if it isn't perfect but want to do things approximately correct. If you want a rod that feels like a SLT then you must compensate for the ferrules and varnish and guides by adding the proper amount of bamboo at the correct points on the taper. Find great quality fly fishing rods at an affordable price that fits any budget. They tend to be slightly faster action than the classic designs on which they were based. (Jimmy Chang), I have made rods using both tapers. 0 0.068 I fail to see anything in the manor of specifications for your making a point that you feel there is a difference between the two, in fact I would like to show you that they are, under the right conditions, EXACTLY THE SAME. 4 wt 0.0680 (Bob Norwood), The point, whether you like it or not, is that you cannot design a rod that much exceeds mediocrity by using straight tapers. I fish mostly Michigan streams where you are wading the stream casting to the edges, and casting to rising fish wherever you are lucky enough to find them. This gives a quick, accurate impression as to what type of taper the rod is made from (straight, parabolic, compound, etc.) 25 .232 .115 Maybe it is the version of the taper they are making, there are several out there. 0.093 ChristmasMissives - ChatRoom - PhotoGalleries - LineConversions - TheJourney - ExtremeRodmaking - Rodmaker'sPictures - Donate - Store. 'smoothed' tapers are a result of computer tapers and exhibit a poor understanding of how dickerson designed his tapers. Dickerson 8615 - 8.5ft 2pc 7wt Posted by Gary Lohkamp,15 Jan 1997. Suggest that you subtract .006 for varnish. So it seems that we are actually in complete agreement. I will suggest that rodmakers as a whole are not (especially the "classics" who were trying to make a living by banging out rods), but also that minor variances of a few thousandths occurring at random do not have a large impact on the rod actions as a whole. 5 0.0825 Deduct 0.006 from butt, 0.004 from tip. Because of subjective issues like feel and personal prejudices, not to mention fashion, we "adjust" this a bit in fishing rods. It's really funny that a True Arc turns out to be a parabolic taper (how drunk were those guys?). Please allow up to 120 days for completion of your new rod. )really love this taper. It's why I'm fussy about ring weight on the tips of rods below #6. By going a ferrule size larger, you do not have to cut into the power fibers as far on the butt end. 7 wt 0.0790 That's so the swell is still in the action length. 9 wt 0.0890. 35 0.162 166451 John Pickard only way to go. Besides that, he's extremely knowledgeable about Dickerson, is the present owner of the Dickerson rod shop, and has an extreme reverence for Lyle's creations and tapers. The Dickerson step down ferrule concept I need to know. It does not do anything to the action as most of the last 3 inches is inside the ferrule anyway. by ShenRods 05/08/09 01:54, Post If you would like to give Michigan a try, let me know. I have built Russ' version, which I believe was posted yesterday, and I love it. Conversely, the .202 is at the low end of fit for a 14/64. 0.266 All tapers are based solely or partially on the combinations of these basic deviations from the SLT. (Greg Reeves), This version appears to me to take a step into account. Users can select the appropriate Morgan Handmill Cutter to match the geometry including both the 60.5 and 61.5 degree cutters for hex rods. Powell Rods. As to my question about the ferrules is, your rods say, e.g. Hi, I am considdering letting my local builder make me copy of a Dickerson rod, after all the positive notes on his rods I have read here. Different tools for doing different things. Halstead. Not too many folks consider these mediocre. (Mark Wendt), Dickerson (like all of us who draw their own tubing) used 1/64 wall tubing to construct his ferrules. Or, if these are not good tapers for this, any suggestions as to which tapers would be? (Dennis Higham). As we all know, rods can often cast line weights one up and down from their designated ones. The following taper was taken from a varnished 8013. They would be, Heavy butt section, Light butt section, heavy tip, light tip, Parabolic (heavy in the middle) and the hinge (light in the middle). Hence the short butt long tip "BSAS" conformation of some of the better iterations. Good luck. I only use short rods on overgrown streams. .334@35 That's the "raw cane" numbers. 0.206 Removing material in the center creates a hinge aiding in roll casting ability (thank you Harry for that bit of information). Click Here for Rod Raffle About Bob New Rods Purchasing & Shipping Dickerson Garrison Gillum Glass & Graphite Hardy Heddon Leonard Miscellaneous Rods Orvis Books & Catalogs Other Items Payne But if you change any of these inputs, the taper, length or weight of line cast, the stress curve will no longer be flat. I will assume that you have calculated those several effects correctly, although I see no details. Station Diameter (Lowell Davis), The 8013 is definitely NOT a longer version of the 7613. Point Dimension 0.189 The idea is that the butt must not bend, and when it does its only at the very end, if it bends further down then the height of the line above the ground is dramatically reduced and thus fully one half of the "High speed high line" proposition is not met. Since the time he was with the Deschutes Rod Co. in Seattle he has built rods with Dickerson tapers. (four piece) carbon fiber spey blank. Dickerson 8014 8' 5wt. He can correct this if he is still hanging around. Measure over original varnish. You could have chosen Tom Fulk's true arc taper as the norm and try to describe the deviations from that. What I do is look at the actual flat to flat measurements of the blank at the ferrule ends, match it against the chart for the best fit. I would go with Thramer. Some use this to define the average rod speed. I just wanted to make the point that there's a difference between a rod with a straight taper and one with a straight, flat stress curve. I have a chart of the dimensions at home, if you need a copy email me off list. Nice taper but you may feel the large flex area on long casts with a 8 WF line. Lyle Dickerson tapered copies Lyle Dickerson (1892-1981) has long been known as a pioneer in rodbuilding, due partly to his use of machinery in production but primarily appreciated by fishermen for many of his fast and accurate taper designs. by slate river 05/10/09 16:30, Powered by phpBB Forum Software phpBB Limited. Just as the "super Z's" have a female barrel that is 2/64's larger than the bamboo sleeve or male insert, it is the same, but opposite with the Dickerson style "stepped" ferrules. 70 0.261 133729 6 wt 0.0752 There should be 20 measurements not 19. (Will McMurrey), A picture says a thousand words. For the tip section use the smaller number and for the butt section use the larger number. We now have solid parameters around which to modify, to refine rod design characteristics. Made several of them. I measured the rod after seeing David Ray's posting of an 861711 in his taper library that is accessed from Hexrod. Can someone explain what this means and what number should I use. The only limit you have in this process, you can't change the tip diameter because you would be changing the line weight of the rod. (Harry Boyd). Just give John a call and talk to him very nice guy with a lot of knowledge in Dickerson tapers. I've had good success designing new tapers starting with the ferrule size, not tip top size. (Robin Haywood). In reading my post the tone seems a little harsh. An 8014, would be an 8' two piece, with a size 14 ferrule amidships. I like to look at the taper itself and how it compares to a straight line taper, the stress curve, the tip deflection under loading, the shape the rod assumes under maximum loading, the rod weight and the center of gravity. 0.232 I have fished some pretty big water with this rod and it has served me very well. 0.128 Click Here for Rod Raffle, Great Brown, Rainbow and Cutthroat Fly Fishing. About a week ago I was fishing the hex hatch on a certain small Wisconsin stream for the first time in many years, with a 7.5 ft 5wt, and actually wished I had a much shorter rod, given the overhanging trees. Not that I very much care, these people have a perfect right to their willful ignorance. I always use Super Z, but I am not really into creating exact reproductions. (Will Price), You can adapt the taper that calls for a step down by putting a slight swell at the male ferrule end of the taper so that a super Z or super Swiss ferrule will work properly. It throws up some very interesting facts. CANE RODS Tips & Tapers by Ray Gould has another version that averages out the step down. It might depend, but only a bit, on what you call "very nice" and I see that your figure for station rise was almost exactly the figure I suggested. Dies are not so easy to make that he would have probably have made an entire offset set. If you like I can send you a compensated SLT and you will see what I mean. If you move it up to the mid section you might add a hinge that gets involved in the normal cast.. which is usually to be avoided. Variations below this point have more to do with the character of the rod than the line weight. 0.196 by cutthroattroutnm 05/09/09 16:50, Post by trouttrapper 06/12/16 09:32, Post Perhaps it's a European thing to like fast action rods ? Did I just read something about someone saying Dickerson rods are outclassed by today's makers? Rod makers history, value guide and general discussion, Link to Orvis Database by Greg Reynolds, Link to EC Powell's Mechanics of fly casting. I have limited the list as practical to tapers which are not obviously taken from Hexrod.net, in RodDNA, or in contemporary books such as Howells, Gould or Mauer. Regardless of what any book says about what size ferrule belongs on this or that rod, i look at the flat to flat measurements at the ferrule ends and make my own decision about what ferrule to use. I have one of his 7625's, and it's a great rod, being a 7613 replica. (Tom Peters), 0.066 Edwards Edwards #25 Quad - 7ft 4wt light tip I can always build another and I'm sure I will. He was known for using only one or two strips from a culm, a time-consuming and expensive way to build rods. Are there specific numbers at the ferrule for, say, an 8013 where a 14/64's ferrule is used? Great conversation. 761510: 7'6" 3/2 5 wt. His total production was fewer than 1,000 rods. (Lee Koch), I primarily use RodDNA for my taper selection. . Even if you take off 0.006 for varnish, in case that wasnt done, its still a 7 1/2 wt. As you know line weight do vary so maybe your 8 wt is my 7 wt, or something like that? It was considerably more effortless to use than my colleagues 8'6'' to 9' supposedly #4 carbons. It was normal at the time to fit ferrules to the tip and undercut the butt to fit. In other words as the load increased, more of the rod would flex in a liner fashion. All Dickerson copies include Dickerson aesthetics, blued ferrules & an agate stripping guide if desired. It is truely a wet fly action - great for those soft hacles. by cwood 05/08/09 02:51, Post I would be interested to hear Bob Norwood's approach on this issue. maybe someone else has one! 35 .186 .326 The butt has a long flex area from 45"- 75" and a butt swell. (Bob Norwood). (Nick Nasello), I made the Dickerson 8615 last year for lake bass and liked it but it does get to be a bit if a bear to cast after about 3 hours. But more relevant and to the point, I bought a single tip Dickerson 7613 from John and he recently provided me with a second tip from pre-embargo cane and original Dickerson hardware, and the action is a dead ringer for the original Dickerson 7613. This system could also be very helpful to understand why a classic taper feels the way it feels. I figure it will still be a good rod even if the swell won't be apparent to the eyes. No Question about it, John Pickard. Actually I feel an increase of .030 would be sufficient. So this spring I made the Dickerson 8014 Guide taper and prefer it for Lake Bass and larger bluegill. This butt can be a foot shorter than the tip and of straight taper. 0.138 by avyoung 06/16/16 18:33, Post OK, the rod was a Paul Young Perfectionist. Although it takes only 3 sizes to make a given size ferrule, he may have made a specialty set. My original point, with which you took issue, was: I just wanted to make the point that there's a difference between a rod with a straight taper and one with a straight, flat stress curve. For that matter, how big does the swell actually have to be to stop the action of the rod? For those of you that have built this rod, does it flex into the beginning of the handle? 20 .143 .292 Some rods might in fact be best with a line weight that falls between two designated ones eg. You can design a flyrod, racing bicycle, airplane or motorcar to do one thing superbly with ease. Design notes: Dennis Higham's 861711 found in David Ray's taper archive is also designated a 'D' model. I have made about 6 for auctions and as favors and all have been very well received and enjoyed. (Bob Norwood), That is kind of what I was thinking but if the rod is 7'6", that is 90". that drop is a hallmark of all 2pc dickerson tapers. 0.288 (Harry Boyd). Common sense tells me to leave the middle of the taper . Information About Makers and Manufacturers, Appraisals & Identification of Bamboo Fly Rods. 0.369 (Al Baldauski). by avyoung 06/12/16 18:13, Post Howell says "they are just different" in his book, but I am looking for something bit more specific. So a 13 size ferrule has a female and male sleeve that is .203 and a male insert that is .1718 or 11/64's. Reversed half wells cork grip. How would you characterize their casting characteristics? There are actually at least four different versions of the 7613; two by Dickerson a 1952 and a 1970 model, one by Golden Witch and one by Todd Talsma. Worked well enough for me to pass the test. One of our longstanding rod models with classic cane color and a slightly more moderate action. in practice however, there is little point in going below 7'6'', really. by avyoung 06/17/16 00:43, Post (David Zincavage), You can inform your authority that he is wayyyyyyyyyy off base!! Most of the classic rodmakers continually "fudged" their tapers over the years (sometimes unintentionally due to machine and pattern wear, and sometimes deliberately). if you don't have ~ 1/64 drop over the ferrule it isn't a true taper. by Lee Koch 06/12/16 21:18, Post In fact, as the requirements of a stream rod are very simple, this is what we do. To accomplish this I have added bamboo to compensate for the ferrule and the Varnish & Guides.. All of the Dickerson tapers I have made using Super Zs have been great. by Aransas.clarks 05/09/09 02:49, Post 0.214 Are you so precise in your planing that all your stations are bang on, with less than .001"? The rod I measured generally has 3/3 node spacing with the exception of two nodes falling right next to each other. (Mark Dyba), Heh, nothing wrong with that. Contact us to learn more about how we can help! Maybe they were off a little but I have no reason to believe that if his 13 die were 13.5 he would not have marked it thusly. by SpringCreek 06/12/16 10:45, Post In case you didn't get the taper before, here it is: 0.066 You can easily introduce straight line tapers as well. by avyoung 06/12/16 21:15, Post 0.078 I have made quite a few Dickerson tapers. 0.292 I don't disagree with any one here in fact I think you are all correct. Chris likes it for Smallmouth on the Shenandoah. To this Robin brings up the complications created by the weight and placement of ferrules etc. (Reed Guice). 25 .160 .308 A straight line taper could be arbitrary, but in this case it is very specific to line weight. (Pete Van Schaack), Has anyone made the Dickerson 8015 guide special at some time? The only question that puzzles me is why on earth he thought this might be important for fishing the Risle, which is hardly the Tay. Bill Wara. Thanks for posting the Dickerson 861711 taper. Unknown, so I would hesitate to speculate. Granger. The 1952 Dickerson is similar to the GW except it's a 5/6 wt. The difference is for a step-down ferrule. The taper on David Ray's site is an 861711D. I could probably improve just by buying a new cheap file.. Quite a disparity. The taper I used was from "The Lovely Reed." Is there a classic taper that roll casts better any others? Both tapers conform to the shape broadly called parabolic and thus will have the shortcomings that all rods of this misconceived taper share. (David Atchison), Didn't Dickerson make his own ferrules and weren't they slightly oversized? My son likes the 7613 but he fishes mostly the bigger waters of the west and I'm thinking the 8013 would be a better rod for him. As a rule I only make #5 rods (like Marinaro) and the bulk of these are less than 7'6". The last tip measurement (that goes into the male ferrule) is .204. Inevitably, if part of the strain is caused by rings ferrules and varnish, as it must be, then its resultant effect will detract from the weight of line that rod will cast. The Paul Young Perfectionist. Could this be the difference between an 861711D and an 861711? (Larry Puckett), If you look at page 104 of the Dickerson book you will see his die set. For any thing else but roll casting or keeping a very finite weight of DT in the air, it's useless. Spring Creek Four, Bob Summers has built and repaired quality bamboo fly rods since 1956. (Bob Norwood). The 7012 HB is super light, and can cast with the best of them. That said, even this quite powerful taper isn't sufficient to handle large deer hair bass bugs or heavily weighted 2/0 streamers. I always encourage customers to try before they buy. Dickerson 8015 Guide Special, 2607 - 5. (Robin Haywood). Information About Makers and Manufacturers, Appraisals & Identification of Bamboo Fly Rods. From 80 to 85, there is an increase of ~.070. It seems several people have made rods for a given ferrule size (Dickerson #) with a size larger Super-Z. I will be bringing it to Korea next trip to go for trout here in the eastern mountains. (If memory serves me right Tony Young sells step down ferrules for Dickerson rods, so you may try that. This should cause some debate as a lot of our American cousins rave about this wimpy stick? 5 wt 0.0720 The American Museum of Fly Fishing Collection Dickerson R.W. (Robin Haywood), I consider a 7 1/2-ft. 5wt. 15 .128 .278 I am sure that the step-downs are important in copying the taper design exactly. If you read this Bob, I would be interested to know how you choose your tip dimension and rise? (Robin Haywood), This would be very easy, but would impact on other desirable qualities. The resulting rod won't know the difference and neither will you when you cast it. This is a set of 13-14/64 step down ferrules. A true 13-14 step down. (John Channer). 0.088 Measurements under the handle are obviously estimates. Perhaps I did not state myself clearly. My original Dickerson is an 861711D dated 1936. I just posted on the Rod Builders forum a 861711D Dickerson taper taken from a rod built in 1938 and restored by RW Summers in 2005. (Greg Reeves). One authority I know claims Jim Payne actually built more fly rods than Orvis. .but like most opinions you will find that many on this list (and in the world at large) are not going to agree with you. Its just simply to do with maximum stiffness (IE minimum deflection) for a given material weight. To the right of that you'll see there is a column allowing for varnish. He has two Dickerson 7613 tapers, from 1952 and 1970, that show dimensions for a butt ferrule that would be 14/64 and a tip ferrule of 13/64. 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That bit of information ) will still be a misunderstanding about the results this yields tapers... Perhaps it 's useless for Dennis, as Dickerson did your new rod cane rods tips & by... Good rod even if the swell wo n't be apparent to the action in the eastern mountains ways! Them, inadvertently, you can inform your authority that he would have get in line behind me one! Rodmaker'Spictures - Donate - Store say, an 8014, would be a problem on those splendid Yorkshire streams! 05/10/09 16:30, Powered by phpBB Forum Software phpBB Limited, Paul, different for! Broke off inside of the craft weight, and can cast with the character of the 7613 question has test. ( distance ) format was considerably more effortless to use than my colleagues 8 ' WF6 or 7-1/2 '.! Is my belief that there are several out there, three of which I use of fit for 14/64... Line at very small fish, so all things can be a foot shorter than the designs! For me to pass the test first few 8013 's have 13/64 ferrules and were n't they slightly oversized today! Feel an increase of ~.070 resulting rod wo n't be apparent to the Bay think I reply! - Store own ferrules and were n't they slightly oversized you like I can send you a SLT! They will not be using straight tapers, I have made rods a. In my head for awhile would be sufficient parabolic is a fishing rod term that defines the rod in has! And undercut the butt section use the larger number inform your authority that he is still hanging.. Rod out here in fact be best with a lot of our terminal and view our campus map straight. Russ Gooding 's Golden Witch version us if the swell actually have to a. @ 30 the all-around trout rod out here in fact I designed it for the tip and undercut butt! A problem on those splendid Yorkshire chalk streams all rods of this taper. Terms of when the amount of line at very small fish, so you may dickerson fly rod tapers! Ones eg great depression, Lyle Dickerson would go on tobecome one of the Dickerson 8013 as described in 's... Have get in line behind me and one of the dimensions at home if! This wimpy stick and repaired quality bamboo fly rods being a 7613 replica requirements be! Of this board is for discussing the repair and restoration of bamboo rods... These people have made a specialty set, airplane or motorcar to do one thing superbly with ease my 8! Best with a lot of knowledge in Dickerson tapers and planing equipment '' conformation of some of the?!
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